Bavaria start strategy?

[Umega]

I've played many games starting as Bavaria wanting to later form Germany, but I always find myself isolated and surrounded by enemies, so I quickly end up ragequiting around 25 years into the game. You usually start off with a mission to annex Ansbach, but it very quickly finds allies with Austria and the Palatinate and other nearby german states. Augsberg doesn't seem to find allies for a while so forging a claim on Augsberg and annexing it seems like a good start.
Does anyone here have a good strategy for Bavaria>Germany?

 

[LarryLeica]

Ally & RM Poland, Hungary, France.

Take Diplomacy/Expansion ideas FIRST.

Build Temples.

Vassalise as many OPMs as possible.

Keep relations with Electors at or as near to 100+ as you can.

Get elected as Emperor ASAP.

Keep kicking Austria until it either revolts into Styria, or you can break it up...

Once elected, always defend the empire.

If the electors go protestant, go protestant too, then start enforcing unity on the catholics... (situational)

DON'T take any provinces in wars from HRE members until you have hereditary imperial inheritance, only diplo-annex.

 

[Grubnessul]

You can safely annex some provinces by force in the HRE in my experience. If your relations with the HRE are high, you can core a province before he will ask you to return it.

 

[LarryLeica]

You can safely annex some provinces by force in the HRE in my experience. If your relations with the HRE are high, you can core a province before he will ask you to return it.

As a general rule I don't, but I agree there are some occasions when you can get away with it.

 

[Umega]

I don't have any interest in becoming the emperor, there is too much responsibility defending the HRE. I don't like getting dragged into too many wars.

 

[might]

As a general rule I don't, but I agree there are some occasions when you can get away with it.

Not sure but I think if the emperor is at war, it wont demand unlawful province

 

[Bavarian Steve]

It also doesn't demand provinces if you are at war, so there is a path for conquest with Bavaria. Fabricate claims on Salzburg first, then on Augsburg. Start Salzburg war, and before you annex them start the war with Augsburg. Once the Augsburg war is started, you can annex and core Salzburg. Continue on this process until you run out of options for starting a new war with few to no allies for your target. Just make sure that with your last war started you do NOT annex them, instead vassilize them. Also keep in mind your aggresive expansion doesn't get too high, and your manpower too low. Also, keep Austria happy.

 

[MiniaAr]

It also doesn't demand provinces if you are at war, so there is a path for conquest with Bavaria. Fabricate claims on Salzburg first, then on Augsburg. Start Salzburg war, and before you annex them start the war with Augsburg. Once the Augsburg war is started, you can annex and core Salzburg.
Continue on this process until you run out of options for starting a new war with few to no allies for your target. Just make sure that with your last war started you do NOT annex them, instead vassilize them. Also keep in mind your aggresive expansion doesn't get too high, and your manpower too low. Also, keep Austria happy.

That's what I do usually as an HRE minor (as Brandenburg, replace Augsburg and Sazlburg by Mecklenburg and Lüneburg for example) .

Another piece of advice, try to ally the neighbours of the countries you are going to annex. If the Palatinate, Saxony and Switzerland (middle players around you and your targets) + Austria are allied to you, then they won't have as much Agressive Expansion as otherwise and you reduce the chance of a big coalition. Don't be affraid to temporarily go above your diplo limit by allying Würtemberg and/or Baden also.

I suggest annexing the Bavarian cultured minors first (Augsburg, Ansbach) + Salzburg (it's too juicy a province) and try to finish the sequence with a forced-vassalisation of Würzburg. This should give a base to build your economy while you repair your relations.

 

[AngryEmpire]

Diplo-annexing however still provides a relation hit with other members of the empire, in my HRE games I normally just annex OPM's and vassalise anything with 2-3 provinces+ (depends on my current OE)

 

[Lakedaimon]

For any hard nation allying major powers is one of the most important thing you can possibly do. It will keep rivals at bay for a while to come and allow you to attack nations close to your size or a little bigger.

 

[eferthad]

Personally, I allied with austria and kept the alliance for a century: eventually, I grew big enough to challange the hapsburgs (and they helped me ), so I allied with france and poland and backstabbed them, vassalising three electors (which were allies of austria): palatinate, mainz and trier. Then, formed a PU through war with saxony, integrating it after 50 years and obtaining the status of elector, succesfully becoming emperor. Also, i forced austria to release styria, and then netherlands. Unfortunately, when I was nearing the reform which makes the emperorship hereditary (so, no war in hre already), i lost my godly heir and ended in a PU under France. Thus, Austria regained the emperorship and passed the reform. I ragequitted.

 

[brifbates]

The biggest factor for playing Bavaria or any other small/medium HRE power is patience. If you try and do too much too fast then all of Europe will hate you and here comes the dogpile. From what you related about your experience this seems likely to be a problem you are encountering. You can easily become quite powerful but you can't come out of the blocks running over everything in sight.

 

[cholliman]

I had a great Bavaria game not long ago - I only stopped since I'm a restart-aholic. Some notes:

1. For all my early conquests, I force vassalized and then annexed the targets. I took diplomacy for the extra diplomat and +2 relations.

2. Ansbach! I just get annoyed when this dinky province gets allied to a power like Austria. I day one took the mission to conquer them and declared one them before hitting unpause. This "should" get you into a 1-1 war with them.

3. Unite the Bavarian Lands! You are surrounded by rich OPM's. Declare war and force vassalize them. BEWARE, I actually had a coalition form against me which I find to be ultra-rare in 1.4 as I force-vassalized Ulm/Augsburg/Ansbach right away. Take your time to let your AE go down, and do a bit of improving relations. After these, Wurtemburg, and I believe it is Wurzburg for Nuremburg are rich Bavarian targets.

4. Take Oberpfalz and vassalize the Palatinate. You obviously need to take Oberpfalz to make pretty borders and it is Bavarian! Keep the Palatinate as a vassal. They are your dynasty, and an elector. After a while, if you inherit their lands you will inherit their vote too!

5. From here, you are in a good position to become emperor - there are a bunch of tiny electors on your doorstep, or do whatever you like!

 

[delra]

Vassalize as many medium-sized states around you as you can, then diplo-annex each and single one of them.

 

[mcmanusaur]

In my experience diplo-annexing OPM's as the HRE emperor is overrated.

 

[HankHank]

Is Bavaria a good power to destroy the HRE? I really wanna do that Napoleon style!

 

[unmerged(804580)]

Is Bavaria a good power to destroy the HRE? I really wanna do that Napoleon style!

Yes, if Ulmer can do it, then Bayer certain can. My first goal in that campaign was to eat up Bavaria.

Along with what others already mentioned, just adding: south German states are in a prime location to vassal-feed two supervassals, that is, Burgundy (Franche-Comte) and Styria. You'd want the Burgundian Inheritance to fire; once it does, rival Austria and try to ally France. And ally the Ottomans too. It's a bit tricky when you can make allies - if you're too small or too big, then they'd be neutral or rival to you.