Battletech Community News - Heavy Metal Edition

[Edmon]

Been a while since I last did one of these so apologies in advance for that! Updates on what is going on around the community as well as a lot of discussion on Heavy Metal and some speculation about Battletech 2 possibly being in the pipeline.

I hope you guys enjoy .

Oh and a quick note from Eck on one point I overlooked:

It's not just mechs and weapons. You also get access to the mini-campaign. I can't tell you any specifics, but I heard the elevator pitch of it and it sounded super cool to me. I've kept myself intentionally in the dark so I can play it when it comes out.

- Eck

 

[Chaon]

Been very happy to hear about the 1.8 patch and Heavy Metal and what is coming in them.

As for Battletech 2, well that would be very interesting to know it could be in the works.

 

[KhazadDhum]

I just watched the stream finally with Mitch and Ryan, the small coil is a support (from the looks of it) and it's 2 tons/4 slots. I'm guessing the medium is 3 tons since the large is 4 tons.

 

[Edmon]

I just watched the stream finally with Mitch and Ryan, the small coil is a support (from the looks of it) and it's 2 tons/4 slots. I'm guessing the medium is 3 tons since the large is 4 tons.

Seems reasonable.

 

[Jade_Rook]

Heavy Metal is confirmed for the 21st.

Next stream that I know of is next Thursday, the 14th, and will be about mod support coming in 1.8.

Damage on the COILs was shown as 15/Evasion for a Small, 25/Evasion for Medium, and 35/Evasion for Large.

With a Jenner, if you strip out all of the other guns and jump jets it has 9.5 tons to use and light armor. That's enough for 3 medium coils or 2 larges. I don't think we can mount 2 mediums in an arm because of slot limits (medium is 6 slots). Still, a Jenner can get 5 evasion relatively easily and with 2 COIL-L it has the potential for 350 damage in two groups. Heat is half damage, so that would generate 175 heat and an auto-shutdown regardless of sinks and heat exchangers.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Heavy Metal is confirmed for the 21st.

Next stream that I know of is next Thursday, the 14th, and will be about mod support coming in 1.8.

Damage on the COILs was shown as 15/Evasion for a Small, 25/Evasion for Medium, and 35/Evasion for Large.

With a Jenner, if you strip out all of the other guns and jump jets it has 9.5 tons to use and light armor. That's enough for 3 medium coils or 2 larges. I don't think we can mount 2 mediums in an arm because of slot limits (medium is 6 slots). Still, a Jenner can get 5 evasion relatively easily and with 2 COIL-L it has the potential for 350 damage in two groups. Heat is half damage, so that would generate 175 heat and an auto-shutdown regardless of sinks and heat exchangers.

Given that COILs will not be available in the Skirmish MechLab, and will be considered “LosTech” (according to Mitch in a recent HEAVY METAL Livestream) in Career and post-Campaign Settings, I know I don’t intend to be putting them at risk in a Shutdown Mech.

It is a shame the new weapon systems won’t be available in the Single or Multiplayer MechLabs. I would have really liked to test them out before running into them in Career Mode. :shrug:

 

[Edmon]

Heavy Metal is confirmed for the 21st.

Next stream that I know of is next Thursday, the 14th, and will be about mod support coming in 1.8.

Damage on the COILs was shown as 15/Evasion for a Small, 25/Evasion for Medium, and 35/Evasion for Large.

With a Jenner, if you strip out all of the other guns and jump jets it has 9.5 tons to use and light armor. That's enough for 3 medium coils or 2 larges. I don't think we can mount 2 mediums in an arm because of slot limits (medium is 6 slots). Still, a Jenner can get 5 evasion relatively easily and with 2 COIL-L it has the potential for 350 damage in two groups. Heat is half damage, so that would generate 175 heat and an auto-shutdown regardless of sinks and heat exchangers.

This is kind of crazy. 350 damage, even if you shut down, is madness. Who cares if you shut down if the other guy is dead?

That said, the meta build for a Jenner is 4xML and full armour. That means 100 damage and 48 heat (delta of 18, against 30 internal heatsinks).

So, for comparison you get:

1 Large Coil. 175 damage and 87.5 heat. A delta of 57.5 on a full power strike. Hot, but you are getting an extra 75 damage here and it's all single point focused. Deadly but slightly more akward to use. Another benefit is your jenner is now a shield-arm design, since it has only a single weapon, you can show the weaponless side and tank much harder.

You are basically running around with the worlds biggest AC/20 with the range of a Large Laser.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

You'd still need to cool down for 2 full turns before you can fire again at max dmg without causing internal damage. Not sure it's really worth it, 175dmg every third turn against 100dmg for 3-4 turns depending on biome.

Sure, you don't have spread, but given you mostly use light mechs early game, with bad pilots, you might as well miss alot, whilst using MLs gives you a decent chance to hit with at least some of them. Definitely a nice build for the occasional precision shot, but not really high sustainable damage output.

I don't necessarily think the COIL is best with the fastest mechs, but has a sweet spot where it deals decent damage for manageable heat. Maybe it is a nice choice for slower mechs, like the Panther. With 70dmg/35heat at 2 evasion pips, it definitely outperforms the PPC. I'll totally try the large COIL with a Warhammer, switch both PPCs for them and get 20% bonus damage. You can even add 6 additional HS for the lower tonnage. 168dmg for 70 heat at 2 pips sounds good and fairly sustainable to me, you can squeeze out more dmg if you want/need to.

 

[Edmon]

You'd still need to cool down for 2 full turns before you can fire again at max dmg without causing internal damage. Not sure it's really worth it, 175dmg every third turn against 100dmg for 3-4 turns depending on biome.

You need to cool for only a single turn, but no-one is forcing you to go full power. Remember, you only have to out perform 4 medium lasers and the Jenner can't actually keep firing those forever (4 turns, then it's down to 3). The coil is dramatically better.

Sure, you don't have spread, but given you mostly use light mechs early game, with bad pilots, you might as well miss alot, whilst using MLs gives you a decent chance to hit with at least some of them. Definitely a nice build for the occasional precision shot, but not really high sustainable damage output.

175 damage is going to instantly kill, from any direction, most light mechs. You have LL range and synergy with breeching shot later on as well. Plus this is just the least favourable example in the Jenner. Coils are going to get more powerful with stacking exchangers, maybe on fast mediums. Ironically, the Banshee might become an absolute monster.

I don't necessarily think the COIL is best with the fastest mechs, but has a sweet spot where it deals decent damage for manageable heat. Maybe it is a nice choice for slower mechs, like the Panther. With 70dmg/35heat at 2 evasion pips, it definitely outperforms the PPC. I'll totally try the large COIL with a Warhammer, switch both PPCs for them and get 20% bonus damage. You can even add 6 additional HS for the lower tonnage. 168dmg for 70 heat at 2 pips sounds good and fairly sustainable to me, you can squeeze out more dmg if you want/need to.

Yes, I think the real power will be with more free tonnage to stack exchangers. Since their heat is so high, exchangers synergise with them far better than any other weapon. I believe you can stack a 45% reduction in the basegame. So many exchangers are heavy, but coils are not and I think the real crazy damage outputs will be found with similar build.

 

[Freakonair]

large 1 shot damage + cooldown phases (coil) compared to a constant dmg output? not easy... and misses will screw up the coil big time.

coils are intended for mechs that have a larger than standard engine.
we cant change enginesize to free up tonnage and mount larger weapons sooo... introducing a weapon that has low tonnage but large size requirements is a nice aproach.

for example, the quickdraw. if you get one while having primary mediums on hand is nice, but as you progress, compared to later mechs it doesnt keep up.
3/4 star attack defend with quickdraw lance in lategame is a nogo, but with coils...

for me, who is obsessed with heavy and assaults, useing the cyclops Z was always a 50/50 chance but now with coils this nice mech is gona have a rebirth in my lance.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

175 damage is going to instantly kill, from any direction, most light mechs. You have LL range and synergy with breeching shot later on as well. Plus this is just the least favourable example in the Jenner. Coils are going to get more powerful with stacking exchangers, maybe on fast mediums. Ironically, the Banshee might become an absolute monster.

I think the Banshee lacks critical slots for more than 1 large COIL, doesn't it? But well, there are still medium and small ones For COIL-Ls, the Battlemaster might be nice. Should be able to mount 3.

You need to cool for only a single turn, but no-one is forcing you to go full power. Remember, you only have to out perform 4 medium lasers and the Jenner can't actually keep firing those forever (4 turns, then it's down to 3). The coil is dramatically better.

With a delta of 57,5 and structural damage beginning at 60 without high guts, I see 2 turns for cooldowns. With high guts you get your second max power shot out after only 1 turn of CD, still, after this it's 2. Is my math somehow wrong here? Am I missing something?

Still, it is a killer. Every other (or third, if i'm right) turn. If it hits. All I'm saying, it has downsides that might make the current meta build a more reliable damagedealer.

Heat is about the same though. Essentially, they SHOULD perform about the same. Problem just is: If you are already running hot and want to take a low dmg shot, you'll end up basically defenseless, because you can't allow to move far

 

[Freakonair]

Yes, I think the real power will be with more free tonnage to stack exchangers. Since their heat is so high, exchangers synergise with them far better than any other weapon. I believe you can stack a 45% reduction in the basegame. So many exchangers are heavy, but coils are not and I think the real crazy damage outputs will be found with similar build.

exchanger++ : 1 slot 4 ton 20% heatreduction, inverse exponential stackable as i remember ((100*0.8)*0.8)*0.8 ...
heatbank+ : 4 slot 1 ton +20heat max, additive stackable

mounting exchanger in lights/mediums, where space is more available than tonnage, nevermind stacking them is highly situational moreso questionable.
i think coils + heatbanks for everything up to heavys is a better aproach.

and for the concern lights might get 1 shotted, coils are non AI, non MP. Single player only experience, so dont like them dont mount them.

edit: and these things are lategame, you wont see them for 90% of the time youre playing.
edit2 : just math.
edit3: logic adjusted
editX: correction

thanks @Jade_Rook:
Small: 2 tons, 4 slots, 15 damage per evasion (SUPPORT WEAPON)
Medium: 3 tons, 6 slots, 25 damage per evasion
Large: 4 tons, 8 slots, 35 damage per evasion
All versions have heat equal to half the damage.

dmgpotential 1 coil-M = ~0.71 coil-L = ~1.67 coil-S

standard max heat before shutdown: 120
coil-L heat/chevron 17.5 : 150/17.5 ~ 6.86 evasion chevrons
coil-M h/c 12.5 : = 9.6 evasion chevrons
coil-S h/c 7.5 : = 16 evasion chevrons

considering you will mount more than 1 coilweapon, the heabank+ "dmg potential"
is ~1.1/~1.6/~2.67 evasion chevrons
and the exchanger++ dmg potential
is one = 20% (4 ton), two = 20%+16% (36%) (8 ton), three = 20%+16%+12.8% (48.8%) (12ton) and so on..

going from here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...rons-explained-need-your-information.1087527/ 6 evasion is max for melee? (i dont now it )

taking the numbers from above, that means for full potential dmg in 1 shot before on 120heat is:
6 EC:
coil-L 120/(17.5*6) = ~1.14 weapons (for 210dmg per weapon rounded down = 210dmg)
coil-M 120/(12.5*6) = 1.6 weapons (for 150dmg per weapon rounded down = 150 dmg)
coil-S 120/(7.5*6) = ~2.67 weapons (for 90dmg per weapon rounded down = 180 dmg)
5 EC:
coil-L 120/(17.5*5) =~1.37 weapons (175 dmg *1 = 175dmg)
coil-M 120/(12.5*5) = 1.92 weapons (125 dmg *1 = 125dmg)
coil-S 120/(7.5*5) = 3.2 weapons (75 dmg *3 = 225dmg)
4 EC:
coil-L 120/(17.5*4) =~1.71 weapons (140 dmg *1 = 140dmg)
coil-M 120/(12.5*4) = 2.4 weapons (100 dmg *2 = 200dmg)
coil-S 120/(7.5*4) = 4 weapons (60 dmg *4 = 240dmg)
3 EC:
coil-L 120/(17.5*3) =~2.29 weapons (105 dmg *2 = 210dmg)
coil-M 120/(12.5*3) = 3,2 weapons (75 dmg *3 = 225dmg)
coil-S 120/(7.5*3) = ~5,3 weapons (45 dmg *5 = 225dmg)
2 EC ("where did the space on my mech go" edition ):
coil-L 120/(17.5*2) =~3.4 weapons (70 dmg *3 = 210dmg)
coil-M 120/(12.5*2) = 4.8 weapons (50 dmg *4 = 200dmg)
coil-S 120/(7.5*2) = 8 weapons (no mech can mount that much support, 6 max) (30 dmg *6 = 180dmg)

conclusion:
1. the medium coils where the base on what hbs build this weapon.
2. mounting more than 2 coil-l on 6 EC would involve heatbanks (2 coil-l = 210 heat = 120 + 4.5 heatbank+) or heatexchanger, but as said before exchanger = tonnage wich you dont have on fast mechs, or 30 single heatsinks
3. i think @HonorKnight the most amazing thread on this forum needs an update (max EC )
4. someone do the math for max available space on a mech??
5. judgeing the numbers, "boating" them is only efficient if you can "round up" on weaponcount per EC.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

...3. i think @HonorKnight the most amazing thread on this forum needs an update (max EC )...

I hope he has the time and opportunity, with 10 New Mechs and so many new Variants, it really would make an excellent resource even better! :bow:

...and for the concern lights might get 1 shotted, coils are non AI, non MP. Single player only experience, so dont like them dont mount them...

Alas Single Player Skirmish won’t see COIL Weapons, or any of the new Weapons either. : (

 

[Freakonair]

I hope he has the time and opportunity, with 10 New Mechs and so many new Variants, it really would make an excellent resource even better! :bow:

Alas Single Player Skirmish won’t see COIL Weapons, or any of the new Weapons either. : (

oh thats a bummer, but if your lance gone through an attack/defend mission (4vs24+4 turrets) do you really need a skirmish match (4vs4)?

 

[Jade_Rook]

standard max heat before shutdown: 150
coil-L heat/chevron 17.5 : 150/17.5 ~ 8.6 evasion chevrons
coil-M h/c 12.5 : = 12 evasion chevrons
coil-S h/c 7.5 : = 20 evasion chevrons

Standard shutdown is at 100 heat, not 150. Internal damage is at 60 and can be increased to 90 with skills. All mechs have 30 inherent heat sinking, so a high skill pilot can generate 120 heat without internal damage.

Low Skill (90 / heat per chevron)
COIL-L = 5.1 chevrons
COIL-M = 7.12 chevrons
COIL-S = 11.8 chevrons

High Skill (120 / heat per chevron)
COIL-L = 6.8 chevrons
COIL-M = 9.5 chevrons
COIL-S = 15.8 chevrons

Additional per Heat Sink (3 / heat per chevron)
COIL-L = 0.17 chevrons -> 5.8 HS for 1 Chevron
COIL-M = 0.24 chevrons -> 4.2 HS for 1 Chevron
COIL-S = 0.40 chevrons -> 2.5 HS for 1 Chevron

 

[Freakonair]

Standard shutdown is at 100 heat, not 150. Internal damage is at 60 and can be increased to 90 with skills. All mechs have 30 inherent heat sinking, so a high skill pilot can generate 120 heat without internal damage.

Low Skill (90 / heat per chevron)
COIL-L = 5.1 chevrons
COIL-M = 7.12 chevrons
COIL-S = 11.8 chevrons

High Skill (120 / heat per chevron)
COIL-L = 6.8 chevrons
COIL-M = 9.5 chevrons
COIL-S = 15.8 chevrons

Additional per Heat Sink (3 / heat per chevron)
COIL-L = 0.17 chevrons -> 5.8 HS for 1 Chevron
COIL-M = 0.24 chevrons -> 4.2 HS for 1 Chevron
COIL-S = 0.40 chevrons -> 2.5 HS for 1 Chevron

dang it, from where have i got the 150 ...
nwm, thanks! ill correct the numbers.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

oh thats a bummer, but if your lance gone through an attack/defend mission (4vs24+4 turrets) do you really need a skirmish match (4vs4)?

How many COIL-Smalls can you fit on a Grasshopper? What is the more bang for the buck on a Firestarter COILs Large, Medium or Small? What mix of Heat Banks and Heat Exchangers work best in a BattleMaster to cool off a multi-COIL BattleMaster?

It’ll be a long time playing a Career Mode game before you’ve got enough COILs and other gear to answer questions like this. It just seems a shame to have all this gear fenced off from Skirmish IMO.

 

[Freakonair]

How many COIL-Smalls can you fit on a Grasshopper? What is the more bang for the buck on a Firestarter COILs Large, Medium or Small? What mix of Heat Banks and Heat Exchangers work best in a BattleMaster to cool off a multi-COIL BattleMaster?

It’ll be a long time playing a Career Mode game before you’ve got enough COILs and other gear to answer questions like this. It just seems a shame to have all this gear fenced off from Skirmish IMO.

the ++ variant are excluded in the skirmish if i am not wrong (again)

and yes an online mechbuilder would really be nice, if it where included in skirmish even better.
but as you have allready said it takes time to get all the equipment.
why not go with what you get and develop from there?

 

[Prussian Havoc]

the ++ variant are excluded in the skirmish if i am not wrong (again)

and yes an online mechbuilder would really be nice, if it where included in skirmish even better.
but as you have allready said it takes time to get all the equipment.
why not go with what you get and develop from there?

Impatience. : )

A mechbuilder is outstanding!

But more than half of testing is seeing how the build does “in the Wild.”

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

If the new weapons are available as .json files, i'll definitely make them available in skirmish just for testing builds. It's easy enough and doesn't really mess with your campaign or career, you just have to replace the files with your backup for multiplayer. I'm impatient, too Not when it comes to my career, I kinda like the grind, but I want to see what I get for grinding