Battlefront III - Gearing for war

[ForzaA]

WTF NOW D3NMARK GETS N3RFED AGANE.

TAHT11!11!!!1!!!1!1!!!1! OMG WTF IS 2 SAY- BTWEN SW3DEN G3TNG A SHIPYARD (WHICH IS A LARGAR BON 2 TH3M THAN A SHIPYARD 2 DENMARK IS- ITS 3ASEIR 2 CATCH UP IF BOTH HAEV A SHIPYARD SINCA TAHTL INCREAES DA PAEC OF PRODUCTION UNTIL DA LIMIT [REAL OR AFECTIEV] IS RAACH3D) AND PORTUGAL DA NETHERLANDS AND BRANDENBURG G3TNG A C DANMARK IS AGANE SAT 2 LOSE OUT

SADLY!1!!1 OMG HAEVNT HAD TEH TIEM 2 CHEK OUT DA FIEL ITS3LF SO THIS IS BAESD ONLY ON DA *POSTED* CHANGES!1!!! OMG WTF LOL.

*ahem*

Now Denmark gets nerfed again...

That is to say- Between Sweden getting a shipyard (which is a larger boon to them than a shipyard to Denmark is- It's easier to catch up if both have a shipyard since that'll increase the pace of production until the limit [real or effective] is reached) and Portugal, the Netherlands and Brandenburg getting a CC, Denmark is again set to loose out.

Sadly, haven't had the time to check out the file itself, so this is based only on the *posted* changes.

 

[Fredrik82]

Forzaa,
boosting Denmark further is out of question. Denmark already got one of the richest provinces in the game, and their MP is bigger then both Swedens and Brandenburg.

 

[Fredrik82]

But not nearly as excessive as actually raising the manpower in Spain's provinces for them losing 4 Dutch Reformed provinces!!!

They'll get more manpower from having Holland as a vassal anyways.

Take it off. It's excessive.

At centralization 7?, not really.
The MP boost in Napoli and Andalusia was kinda minimal.
their MP increased with 2K yearly.

Explain?

This might be necessary with a Spain without Holland, i need to take a look at this more in detail later though.

 

[juv95hrn]

*ahem*

Now Denmark gets nerfed again...

That is to say- Between Sweden getting a shipyard (which is a larger boon to them than a shipyard to Denmark is- It's easier to catch up if both have a shipyard since that'll increase the pace of production until the limit [real or effective] is reached) and Portugal, the Netherlands and Brandenburg getting a CC, Denmark is again set to loose out.

Sadly, haven't had the time to check out the file itself, so this is based only on the *posted* changes.

I can only agree that giving shipyards to nations that wouldn't normally recieve them is in fact relatively weakening the nations that would. For majors that might not be a big issue but for smaller nations (like Denmark and Venice) it takes away a lot of their competitive edge in their regional theatres of operation. Shouldn't these nations have the cost of the shipyard (and free CC's) added to their treasury so as to assure balance and fairness?

If not I accept this nerfing of Venice since I'm happy to have been awarded the possibilty to play an interesting nation.

 

[Fredrik82]

Shouldn't these nations have the cost of the shipyard (and free CC's) added to their treasury so as to assure balance and fairness?

I fail to see how money can assure balance though.
But it is true that Venice-Denmark is the loosers here. But as for Denmark they will have potentials allies (Russia/Poland/Brandenburg) that now will be more able to build a fleet against the Swedish power.

 

[juv95hrn]

I fail to see how money can assure balance though.
But it is true that Venice-Denmark is the loosers here. But as for Denmark they will have potentials allies (Russia/Poland/Brandenburg) that now will be more able to build a fleet against the Swedish power.

And Venice?

It's just that nobody likes to see advantages edited out of ones nation one day before the campaigns start by one of its participating players, without any means to influence those edits.

Furthermore you forgot to mention, motivate and compensate that you robbed Venice of another 1500d by lowering the fortress in Venice. I always felt that every English province being as well defended as the Venetian possessions being unbalanced, historically inaccurate and incredulous but I take it we wont see as much nerfing there as in my 5 province superpower?

I mean since I was favored so much in the national selection procedure I guess its only fair that my nation is the (only?) one recieving the harshest edits after all.

 

[Fredrik82]

I forgot to mention mighty -> large in Venice in the edit list.
Venice doesn't need mighty fort when the strait will protect it.
Remember that PEs scenario is old.

 

[Fredrik82]

It's just that nobody likes to see advantages edited out of ones nation one day before the campaigns start by one of its participating players, without any means to influence those edits.

Shipyards etc were discussed way back, it was also included in bocajs scenario. And Dont forget that Austria/Russia/Sweden/Poland/Frances shipyards only can produce a minimal amount of ships.
While the greater naval powers can build 40-50 ships at the time.

 

[admiral drake]

I can only agree that giving shipyards to nations that wouldn't normally recieve them is in fact relatively weakening the nations that would. For majors that might not be a big issue but for smaller nations (like Denmark and Venice) it takes away a lot of their competitive edge in their regional theatres of operation. Shouldn't these nations have the cost of the shipyard (and free CC's) added to their treasury so as to assure balance and fairness?

If not I accept this nerfing of Venice since I'm happy to have been awarded the possibilty to play an interesting nation.

only nation that gets a shipyard in youre area is france hardly a big nerf

 

[admiral drake]

And Venice?

It's just that nobody likes to see advantages edited out of ones nation one day before the campaigns start by one of its participating players, without any means to influence those edits.

Furthermore you forgot to mention, motivate and compensate that you robbed Venice of another 1500d by lowering the fortress in Venice. I always felt that every English province being as well defended as the Venetian possessions being unbalanced, historically inaccurate and incredulous but I take it we wont see as much nerfing there as in my 5 province superpower?

I mean since I was favored so much in the national selection procedure I guess its only fair that my nation is the (only?) one recieving the harshest edits after all.

harshest ? there is abolutly no reason you got mighty fort or even large at this point pe added 1 before the strait was introduced for the exact same reason as what the strait is intended for

and asfar as i know thats the only nerf you got since shipyards to france/sweden and oh my god russia hardly sounds like oh so bad for venice what would venice be doing in scandinavia otherwise anyway ? :wacko:

 

[admiral drake]

request for edition starting year of Duque de Alba

this is the leaderfile

}
historicalleader = {
category = general
id = { type = 6 id = 09771 }
name = "Duque de Alba"
startdate = {
year=1535
}
deathdate = {
year=1582
}
rank = 1
movement = 4
fire = 4
shock = 5
siege = 0
}

according to tonio the date in the pe scenario is inacurate can this be fixed fredrick ?

 

[ForzaA]

Forzaa,
boosting Denmark further is out of question. Denmark already got one of the richest provinces in the game, and their MP is bigger then both Swedens and Brandenburg.

I wonder, then, why Denmark nearly always gets her ass kicked by the Swedes WAY before that happened in real life.

EDIT: and to say that Denmark's MP is bigger than both Swedens and Brandenburg's is only CONDITONALLY true - namely, if she keeps her vasal(s) AND doesn't move her centralisation up.
And that "Denmark already got one of the richest provinces in the game"- I'm sure that makes sense as an argument SOMEHOW, but I don't see - that's the same as saying Spain isn't allowed to conquer the Inca or Aztecs because she already has the most gold of all player nations anyway :wacko:

Shipyards etc were discussed way back, it was also included in bocajs scenario. And Dont forget that Austria/Russia/Sweden/Poland/Frances shipyards only can produce a minimal amount of ships.
While the greater naval powers can build 40-50 ships at the time.

Shipyards were discussed as PART OF A BIGGER EDIT, not as something you could just slap onto any random (sorry Peter o ) scenario.

 

[unmerged(11287)]

i can't play from 22 to 23 on tuesdays, It'll be better you find another one for BB/Prussia =/

 

[Fredrik82]

i can't play from 22 to 23 on tuesdays, It'll be better you find another one for BB/Prussia =/

Better late then never eh?

I will talk to Rezag if he is willing to take over Brandenburg.
If i fail to do that, i will be forced to drop either Denmark, Poland, Portugal or Venice as a player nation and move them to Brandenburg.

Anyone willing?

 

[Damocles]

England's fortresses should be minimal at most. If they're as high as Venice, that would be...laughable.

England's main defense is it's navy. It has always been screwed if someone were able to land.

 

[Fredrik82]

Forzaa,
That Denmark is a difficult nation to play is nothing new. but it is absolutely possible to succeed though. Much depends how the Swedes act.

What do you propose, within reasonable limits, Denmark needs in this game to make it more "fair" or balanced. I'm open for ideas as long as it is reasonable.

 

[Fredrik82]

according to tonio the date in the pe scenario is inacurate can this be fixed fredrick ?

If you can prove this with facts, sure.

 

[Fredrik82]

England's main defense is it's navy. It has always been screwed if someone were able to land.

It is the same for Venice since the latest beta though

 

[juv95hrn]

It is the same for Venice since the latest beta though

So why nerf Venice but not Englands forts? Just asking since England needs forts as much as Venice if I understand you correcly?

 

[ForzaA]

What do you propose, within reasonable limits, Denmark needs in this game to make it more "fair" or balanced. I'm open for ideas as long as it is reasonable.

See, that's why I liked the idea of Bocaj making a new 1520 scenario on, among others, the assumption that everyone would be getting a shipyard; that change (fairly radical, I would say) could be balanced with minor edits everywhere, in so far as needed, while it now comes down to "having to" edit specific nations against specific changes.

...just tossing in some idea that probably gets shot down before it has time to settle in on the server;
give everyone who DIDN'T get a CC or Shipyard in these "quick edits" +2 basetax to a province of their choice( in all likelyhood, their capital/shipyard province)

over 300 years (the length of the campaign) this amounts to ~600 ducats census and ~600 investment, total 1200 ducats; reasonably close to the 1000 ducats of a shipyard or CC, if we take into account the time effect.