Base infamy off holdings, not provinces.

[riadach]

I don't have any major issues with the new coalition mechanics but I do feel that put far too burdensome a restriction on nomads or tribal realms, especially considering how nomadic realms including the Mongols were able to expand so rapidly into the steps.

So why not base infamy on holdings rather than provinces? That would mean that you would only accrue a third of the value of infamy for conquering a tribal province and none at all for conquering a nomadic province. This would allow realms in these areas to more accurately represent their massive rise and fall though still slow down expansion into feudal/iqta areas.

 

[beartjah]

Would kind of break down with nomads, since they only have soemthing like 10 holdings. infamy is also based on your own size, not just of what you conquer

 

[riadach]

Would kind of break down with nomads, since they only have soemthing like 10 holdings. infamy is also based on your own size, not just of what you conquer

Nomads have only one, surely.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

The problem with this is that it means Nomads will never have a Defensive Pact form against them, their small realm size means that they'll never reach the threshold needed for the Threast System to perceive them as "large".

This is a problem given that historically a large number of actual alliances that resembles Defensive Pacts were settled realms against Nomads,.

 

[kmh42]

The problem with this is that it means Nomads will never have a Defensive Pact form against them...

... when they stay in nomadic realms. Imagine a Nomadic realm consolidating the hole nomadic area. Surly this could be worrisome but the most Feudal/Iqta/Tribal realm would not mind. But in the moment this large nomadic blob conquers a feudal Duchy they get threatening because the are a large realm and capture many holding, therefore the get 50% threat and a DP along the Feudal/Iqta/Tribal realm would band together.
I think that sounds nice. Just those little nomadic realms are lost but this is already the case and the nomadic area gets cultural monolithic over beaten by feudal realms.
I like the idea in the OP but there need to be a hell lot of balancing work in the nomadic areas besides DP.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

... when they stay in nomadic realms. Imagine a Nomadic realm consolidating the hole nomadic area. Surly this could be worrisome but the most Feudal/Iqta/Tribal realm would not mind. But in the moment this large nomadic blob conquers a feudal Duchy they get threatening because the are a large realm and capture many holding, therefore the get 50% threat and a DP along the Feudal/Iqta/Tribal realm would band together.
I think that sounds nice. Just those little nomadic realms are lost but this is already the case and the nomadic area gets cultural monolithic over beaten by feudal realms.
I like the idea in the OP but there need to be a hell lot of balancing work in the nomadic areas besides DP.

I think you're misunderstanding the ramifications of the proposal. Threat is based on size - if you base that mechanic on realm size - i.e. number of holdings and NOT number of provinces then Nomads will read as tiny - because they only have one holding, all the provinces being empty bar the capital.

Small realms don't trigger Pacts when they expand - so the Nomads won't trigger any pacts until they take a Kingdom.

 

[kmh42]

I think you're misunderstanding the ramifications of the proposal. Threat is based on size - if you base that mechanic on realm size - i.e. number of holdings and NOT number of provinces then Nomads will read as tiny - because they only have one holding, all the provinces being empty bar the capital.

Small realms don't trigger Pacts when they expand - so the Nomads won't trigger any pacts until they take a Kingdom.

That is true. I was thinking another way. Maybe the base threat value is still the province size of a realm and when conquering land the realm size (holdings) matter and not the amount of provinces. If this is possible. So we get the affect I described.

 

[User29]

I think you're misunderstanding the ramifications of the proposal. Threat is based on size - if you base that mechanic on realm size - i.e. number of holdings and NOT number of provinces then Nomads will read as tiny - because they only have one holding, all the provinces being empty bar the capital.

Small realms don't trigger Pacts when they expand - so the Nomads won't trigger any pacts until they take a Kingdom.

That's kinda how I read history in the relation of the nomads to the civilized South, no talk of pontic empires only minor sarmatian kingdoms and then... we're marrying our daughters to khazars. Empires seem to be the only times nomads even enter the minds of the civilized kingdoms of the south, I know full well I'm oversimplifying, but the north is protected from nomads by their attrition, I don't think it would be crazy for the south to be vulnerable to first strike from a nomadic empire. the Seljuks were off the radar until wham Persia's ours.

 

[beartjah]

Nomads have only one, surely.

Each vassal clan also adds a holding.

And you might want to build a tmeple at holy sites for the extra moral authority