Base game modified by unpurchased DLC?

[Lenroc]

So it seems that when new DLC (and the sub-sequential updates of the game) get released it modifies the base game even if the DLC wasn't purchased. And by "modifies" I mean it removes features that the base game used to have.
Is this correct? I'm new on the forums, I own CK2 and I'm looking to buy EU4 and Stellaris but some of the reviews on Steam suggest the above and if it's true it's kind of a deal breaker for me.

Thanks!

 

[Dragatus]

When a new DLC is released there is a free patch, which modifies the base game. Usually these free patches don't remove features, but rather add them. In the case of CK2 the most controversial was the 2.5 patch which added shattered retreat and coallitions/defensive pacts which a lot of people didn't want.

However, it is possible to roll back to earlier version of the game. Information on that can be found here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...your-version-of-ck2-to-a-previous-one.764752/

So if you don't like the changes introduced in a patch, you can always keep on playing the older version of the game.

 

[kente]

i can't speak about ck2 because i have played it few times, but i can speak about eu4. Sometimes features are reworked, so some feature which you used to will be removed and replaced with a new feature. An example is the building mechanic, until patch 1.11 you could build every building in every province (building are unlocked upgrading your technology), in 1.12 the whole mechanic was reworked, so now every province has a development level, you can build building depending the development of a province (higher development allows to build more buildings). You can increase the development of a province, but only if you buy the dlc.
Anyway, in the old mechanic you couldn't actually build every building in every province (specially if you were a very big country) because of the cost (in gold and monarch points) and the same is with the new mechanic: you can't develop every province because the cost is prohibitive.

Anyway, as Dragatus said, you can always roll back in a previous patch (for example, i'm still playing in eu4 with the 1.11 patch, now is 1.17 patch), i assure you the game is enjoyable even without buying the DLCs and even without upgrading it every patch

 

[Phi-]

So it seems that when new DLC (and the sub-sequential updates of the game) get released it modifies the base game even if the DLC wasn't purchased. And by "modifies" I mean it removes features that the base game used to have.
Is this correct? I'm new on the forums, I own CK2 and I'm looking to buy EU4 and Stellaris but some of the reviews on Steam suggest the above and if it's true it's kind of a deal breaker for me.

Thanks!

You are completely correct.

The original game and some of its features may be altered at any point through a DLC-patch, even if you don't buy the DLC.

If you roll back to the old version you are effectively forfeiting your right to any bug fixes, because Paradox will obviously only fix bugs for the newest version.

 

[macd21]

Generally what happens is that there's a patch at the same time as the DLC. The patch usually includes so new free features or changes old ones, rather than removing old ones. You inevitably get a few people who preferred the old way of doing things and who complain loudly about the change, but the intent is to improve the game, not to remove old features.

 

[AntZudan]

It's more that every time there's dlc released some of it gets given away for free. They're also shortly giving a lot more menu options to pick and choose and adjust which aspects of patches you use.

 

[Rationalsanity]

Normally they don't really make the DLC necessary. However Conclave was the exception; they nerfed opinion bonuses and made vassals more aggressive in the patch, while putting the new Council and non-aggression pact mechanics (that help control vassals) behind Conclave.

 

[Dragatus]

Non-aggression pacts are in the free patch. Maybe you meant favors?

 

[Humanoid Typhoon]

So it seems that when new DLC (and the sub-sequential updates of the game) get released it modifies the base game even if the DLC wasn't purchased. And by "modifies" I mean it removes features that the base game used to have.
Is this correct? I'm new on the forums, I own CK2 and I'm looking to buy EU4 and Stellaris but some of the reviews on Steam suggest the above and if it's true it's kind of a deal breaker for me.

Thanks!

You can always roll back the version to the one you prefer or use mods. PDX games are pretty mod friendly and compatible with steam workshop making installation super easy. You can find one for just about anything.

 

[Rationalsanity]

The only thing wrong with the current game is the automatic call to arms which is going to be addressed in the next patch. Everything else is brilliant.

The education system is a stripped down mess that the AI has no idea how to use effectively.

 

[Dragatus]

The education system is a stripped down mess that the AI has no idea how to use effectively.

The education is a DLC feature though. The free patch features are NAPs and alliances with automatic call to arms, shattered retreat, and defensive pacts.

Although with the 2.5 patch, Paradox fucked up and people who said they liked it were trolling.

People like all sorts of things that other people don't. Just because many didn't like the features doesn't mean everyone who claimed otherwise was trolling.

 

[Lenroc]

Thank you all for the replies.

Normally they don't really make the DLC necessary. However Conclave was the exception; they nerfed opinion bonuses and made vassals more aggressive in the patch, while putting the new Council and non-aggression pact mechanics (that help control vassals) behind Conclave.

Yeah, I hear you. I had to get some kings for my empire as the russian grand principes were going crazy on me.

 

[Humanoid Typhoon]

The education system is a stripped down mess that the AI has no idea how to use effectively.

That would be a valid comment if the AI knew how to use the old one. The only reason it seems so far off from the old system is because there is a lot more room for randomization and as far as the AI goes education is a lottery. It always has been.

 

[es333]

The education is a DLC feature though. The free patch features are NAPs and alliances with automatic call to arms, shattered retreat, and defensive pacts.



People like all sorts of things that other people don't. Just because many didn't like the features doesn't mean everyone who claimed otherwise was trolling.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...tomation-and-removal-of-player-choice.909935/

192 agrees, 9 disagrees. People who say they like the 2.5 patch are trolling, the absolute majority hate it.

 

[macd21]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...tomation-and-removal-of-player-choice.909935/

192 agrees, 9 disagrees. People who say they like the 2.5 patch are trolling, the absolute majority hate it.

No. The number of agree/disagree responses to a post tells you absolutely nothing about the popularity of the subject.

 

[Humanoid Typhoon]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...tomation-and-removal-of-player-choice.909935/

192 agrees, 9 disagrees. People who say they like the 2.5 patch are trolling, the absolute majority hate it.

If you want to pull up 5 month old posts for useless like/dislike ratios i'll play that game too.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/conclave-dev-diary-5-post-launch.907480/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/conclave-dd-6-the-2-5-2-patch.908792/

Both are Dev Diaries made directly after the release on Conclave. Combined there's 411 Likes, 134 Helpful and 11 Disagrees. According to your logic the majority are entirely on the other side of the fence and love Conclave. This just reinforces what Macd21 said above so don't pull up old posts like that, proclaiming that people think this or that. You'll just look like a moron.

The problem isn't that the majority of people hate 2.5. The problem is the minority of people that do hate it are a bunch of loud whiners that won't stop bitching until they've got their own way.

 

[mjohnson85]

Putting the whiners on your ignore list makes these forums 100 times more pleasant. Amazingly there are about 5 people who if you ignore the forums completely change in tone. It makes you realize just how pleasant the community truly is and just how toxic some people can be.

 

[es333]

If you want to pull up 5 month old posts for useless like/dislike ratios i'll play that game too.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/conclave-dev-diary-5-post-launch.907480/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/conclave-dd-6-the-2-5-2-patch.908792/

Both are Dev Diaries made directly after the release on Conclave. Combined there's 411 Likes, 134 Helpful and 11 Disagrees. According to your logic the majority are entirely on the other side of the fence and love Conclave. This just reinforces what Macd21 said above so don't pull up old posts like that, proclaiming that people think this or that. You'll just look like a moron.

The problem isn't that the majority of people hate 2.5. The problem is the minority of people that do hate it are a bunch of loud whiners that won't stop bitching until they've got their own way.

Everyone "agree" with dev posts, as it is about stuff people have not tried yet.

Also, you're a troll and are not serious about loving shattered retreat and coalitions + 2.5 overall. Have a nice day.

 

[Dragatus]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...tomation-and-removal-of-player-choice.909935/

192 agrees, 9 disagrees. People who say they like the 2.5 patch are trolling, the absolute majority hate it.

Those ratings are biased because the thread title drew in people who hate the features while people who don't mind them were probably not interested in the thread. But even if we assume that's an accurate representation of the distribution of opinions, there is still a big difference between having a minority opinion and trolling.

 

[es333]

Putting the whiners on your ignore list makes these forums 100 times more pleasant. Amazingly there are about 5 people who if you ignore the forums completely change in tone. It makes you realize just how pleasant the community truly is and just how toxic some people can be.

I completely agree with you, I have 3 people in my ignore list, when you start using this method you realize how few of those kind of people can influence our perception of the forum. Ignoring those individuals makes everything more pleasant and less toxic.