Barcelona should not be in de jure Aquitane in the 769 start

[BFKelleher]

1. Historically is was conquered in 801. 801 is in the time period after 769. Also, by de jure drift logic, it shouldn't ever be in de jure Aquitane considering that 801-867 is only 66 years and not 100. Also, by this logic Saxony should still exist de jure in 867, but I'm willing to forgive a two year difference. Of course, Holstein should likely be in k_germany and not k_denmark for the Old Gods start but whatever.
2. Gameplay wise it's kind of dumb. Due to the large physical barrier between Iberia and Francia, the Muslim realm there remains almost completely static until crusades start. Then every 30 years it's a crusade for Aquitane followed immediately by a Sunni holy war for Barcelona. If it was a crusade for Andalusia, maybe it'd work out, but the weight for Aquitane, even if Aquitane is already Christian, is higher than the Spanish kingdoms.

 

[GeneralPetrov]

1. Historically is was conquered in 801. 801 is in the time period after 769. Also, by de jure drift logic, it shouldn't ever be in de jure Aquitane considering that 801-867 is only 66 years and not 100. Also, by this logic Saxony should still exist de jure in 867, but I'm willing to forgive a two year difference. Of course, Holstein should likely be in k_germany and not k_denmark for the Old Gods start but whatever.
2. Gameplay wise it's kind of dumb. Due to the large physical barrier between Iberia and Francia, the Muslim realm there remains almost completely static until crusades start. Then every 30 years it's a crusade for Aquitane followed immediately by a Sunni holy war for Barcelona. If it was a crusade for Andalusia, maybe it'd work out, but the weight for Aquitane, even if Aquitane is already Christian, is higher than the Spanish kingdoms.

This plus the fact it results in horrible and unhistorical looking borders.

 

[klopkr]

Who should own it instead? Andelusia? In my most recent game brittany won a crusade for andelsia and ended up becoming a mjor world power from it. Charlemagne adelusia is phushing the kingdom suze limit imo.

 

[GeneralPetrov]

Who should own it instead? Andelusia? In my most recent game brittany won a crusade for andelsia and ended up becoming a mjor world power from it. Charlemagne adelusia is phushing the kingdom suze limit imo.

The same kingdom that normally de jure owns it: Aragon. I'm not sure where you got Andulucia from since I don't even think that's connected to Barcelona.

 

[klopkr]

The same kingdom that normally de jure owns it: Aragon. I'm not sure where you got Andulucia from since I don't even think that's connected to Barcelona.

It is in the Charlemagne start date. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure Aragon never existed during this time and it's the reason it's Aquitaine that has the region instead.

 

[GeneralPetrov]

It is in the Charlemagne start date. I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure Aragon never existed during this time and it's the reason it's Aquitaine that has the region instead.

It doesn't exist no, but it exists in de jure form, like most de jure kingdoms and empires.

 

[BFKelleher]

Here's where it likely should be: Andalusia. At the 769 start, Andalusia owns 4/5 of the counties in Barcelona while Middle Francia only owns 1 county at the edge of Barcelona. Aragon should likely be a titular kingdom that can be created by an independent Christian that owns d_barcelona and another duchy.

Edit: oh that's how it is except you have to hold c_barcelona

 

[klopkr]

Here's where it likely should be: Andalusia. At the 769 start, Andalusia owns 4/5 of the counties in Barcelona while Middle Francia only owns 1 county at the edge of Barcelona. Aragon should likely be a titular kingdom that can be created by an independent Christian that owns d_barcelona and another duchy.

Andelusia is a huge kingdom at this point though. I'm weary of it getting bigger, especially because it's a crusade target.

 

[BFKelleher]

Andelusia is a huge kingdom at this point though. I'm weary of it getting bigger, especially because it's a crusade target.

Well I think likely the Crusade weights need to be rebalanced so that the Northern Kingdoms are more encouraged to do a reconquista rather than it coming in from the left side of nowhere.

 

[DeathBurst]

Crusades don't come from individual Kingdoms, they are called by the head of religion, so I'm not sure what you mean.

But regarding the original topic, I think the whole "De Jure" system is flawed. It should be possible for a province to not be part of any De Jure kingdom/empire, with a much more quick drift when they are conquered for the first time. This is a good opportunity to promote this really good idea: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/chance-of-no-dejure-kingdoms.859530/
Go vote on it people, do it.

And for the specific case of Barcelona, I really don't think it should be part of Aquitaine. So until the whole system can be improved, I'd suggest to let it in De Jure Aragon, even if Aragon never existed at this period in time.

 

[Wezqu]

Crusades don't come from individual Kingdoms, they are called by the head of religion, so I'm not sure what you mean.

They are talking about crusade weights that are vallues set to for de jure kingdoms that make it more likely that those that have high weights are the kingdoms pope will call the crusader for.