Barbaric despoilers vs Nihilistic Aquisition

[LeonOfOddecca]

I'd like to play a campaign as a raiding, slaving despot, but I need to make a decision whether to get the Barbaric Despoilers civic, or hold out for the ascension perk. Which path is better? From what I gather, the civic comes with diplomatic restrictions that the ascension perk does not. But on the other hand it seems like an extra ascension perk is more important than an extra civic. Do I have the pros and cons right? What are people's experiences who've made this choice in the past?

 

[Kryndude]

The first two ascension perk choices aren't that great so I'd say go with NA. Your not gonna invade anyone before you get it anyways. The biggest downside of BD is that you have to pick militarist. It's not bad, but then it's not great either. However they do get adaptability tradition tree instead of diplomacy so if you're planning on engaging in no diplomacy then BD is better.

 

[Illyrien]

I would recommend that you watch this vid from aspec:

 

[Ter.Yeah]

I watched that video and I'd say that aspec's favor of nihilistic acquisition over barbaric despoilers is a bit off. The rewards for the despolation casus belli doesn't scale as badly as claimed (if the wiki is correct). It says:
"Loser loses 500 Energy and 500 Minerals for every 3 planets they own, rounded up, and capped at 60 planets, for a maximum of 10,000 Minerals and Energy gained. Winner will then gain those resources even if the loser didn't have enough. Loser gets 20% reduced production for 10 years."

20% reduced production can be significant, - and the surrender acceptance for despolation casus belli is only -25.

Barbaric despoilers also get the Adaptability tradition tree instead of Diplomacy, which I at least, feel is superior.

Granted, if you want migration treaties or federations, BD's are out the window.

 

[Adolf - Finite War]

I'd lean more on the side of BD but it really depends on whether you need the Civ slot for something else, ethics can be shifted and one of the perks of BD is the adaptability tradition tree that you'd only loose if you swap out your civs when you declare your chosen one a god which is only an option if you pick the psionic ascension it also shifts your ethics so you better have a lot of influence to shift away from spiritualism especially if you have synths (or you scrap 'em).

A ascension perk however can't be changed.

 

[LeonOfOddecca]

Thanks guys! Very helpful.

I'm leaning towards BD because even though the first two ascension perks aren't great compared to later ascension perks, I think they're still better than any civic. So it's better to have an extra ascension pick than an extra civic.

I didn't really buy Aspec's arguments. Imo the extra causis belli makes up for the damage to diplomacy, and once again, it's better to have an extra ascension perk than extra civic.

The strongest argument against BD seems to be that it requires the militarist ethic, which I agree is not great.

 

[Defiler99]

I've played several Barbaric Despoiler games recently, and they're a good time. Be careful with the number of diplomatic agreements you make, since you don't get the 50% discount on them from the Diplomacy tree.
I'm personally a big fan of No Retreat, so I don't mind the Militarist aspect.

 

[LeonOfOddecca]

I have another question about raiding slightly different to the OP. Is it possible to raid primitives? I can't seem to be able to. When I right-click on the planet, it asks if I want to raid and warns me that the planet will turn hostile. I click yes, but nothing happens.