Bankrupt Raiders

[evan1119]

I know this has been touched upon before, but I don't think I've quite noticed how much in the red norse kingdoms get when raiding. Has anyone touched upon how this can be fixed, absent a wholesale overhaul of raiding in the game in general?

 

[BigPharma]

One would have to change unit maintenance factors, which would require a wholesale overhaul of the game's entire military, probably. The other option, like you said, is an overhaul of the raiding system, plans for which are not really in the cards right now (but might be in the future).

One of the biggest culprits is how much ships cost to maintain, and unfortunately, there's not much we can do about that unless we lower ship maintenance across the board, to my knowledge.

 

[evan1119]

One would have to change unit maintenance factors, which would require a wholesale overhaul of the game's entire military, probably. The other option, like you said, is an overhaul of the raiding system, plans for which are not really in the cards right now (but might be in the future).

One of the biggest culprits is how much ships cost to maintain, and unfortunately, there's not much we can do about that unless we lower ship maintenance across the board, to my knowledge.

What about a norse specific cultural modifier reducing levy maintenance by half, would that be possible? All I've seen on the wiki are maintenance modifiers for retinues and hordes (whatever that is - event spawned troops I suppose) but no modifier for ordinary levy maintenance.

 

[BigPharma]

What about a norse specific cultural modifier reducing levy maintenance by half, would that be possible? All I've seen on the wiki are maintenance modifiers for retinues and hordes (whatever that is - event spawned troops I suppose) but no modifier for ordinary levy maintenance.

Unfortunately, that doesn't exist. Retinues (and by extension hordes, which operate on the same principle as retinues do) use their own maintenance modifier defines, but those ultimately are based on unit maintenance costs set in defines.lua, which control maintenance for all units used in the game.

 

[evan1119]

Unfortunately, that doesn't exist. Retinues (and by extension hordes, which operate on the same principle as retinues do) use their own maintenance modifier defines, but those ultimately are based on unit maintenance costs set in defines.lua, which control maintenance for all units used in the game.

So much for that idea. Thanks for your help @caocao268. Hopefully your ARLES sub-mod will address the broken raiding system perhaps

 

[RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen]

Maybe (AI only?) events that would grant gold to the ruler who is raiding?

I know it is not ideal solution, but since unit maintenance is more-less impossible to change, and I doubt AI can be improved...

 

[evan1119]

Maybe (AI only?) events that would grant gold to the ruler who is raiding?

I know it is not ideal solution, but since unit maintenance is more-less impossible to change, and I doubt AI can be improved...

Anywhere to modify how gold is retrieved by the raiding realm? Perhaps, like raising adjunct provinces, sea raiders accumulated wealth goes straight into the realm's coffers without having to be brought back by boat?

I've noticed AI times out when raiding, especially after looting all of a provinces holdings, resulting in the realm going further into the red while the loot just sits in the adjacent boat.

 

[evan1119]

One of the biggest culprits is how much ships cost to maintain, and unfortunately, there's not much we can do about that unless we lower ship maintenance across the board, to my knowledge.

Why not have zero maintenance for ships? I think the issue with navies in CK2 is an under appreciated problem which was never addressed after the revolt over naval attrition. It's not like the AI actually cares whether its fleet bankrupts itself when deciding whether to levy ships. If anything I would raise the technology requirement for realms to create shipyards across the board. No reason why Finnish pagans should be able to invade my Irish petty kingdom in 867.

 

[zijistark]

Galley maintenance is 10% of normal for seafarers, and the normal maintenance value in EMF is already dirt-cheap due to poor AI behavior.

 

[bontanel]

How about some events triggering when you're raiding. Something like "Your party comes across an undefended village/town/fort". Then you get decisions which give you money or bad traits or wounds and such. Would take a lot of balancing though.

 

[evan1119]

How about some events triggering when you're raiding. Something like "Your party comes across an undefended village/town/fort". Then you get decisions which give you money or bad traits or wounds and such. Would take a lot of balancing though.

That was Rylock at CK+ proposed answer to the problem of raiding maintenance, among other issues, before he left that project. I believe it got a lot of push back from the community over there - it would relegate a significant feature of the game's combat to randomized events. Doubtful it would gain traction with Zij and co. for HIP for similar gameplay, not to mention time, reasons as well.

 

[bontanel]

That was Rylock at CK+ proposed answer to the problem of raiding maintenance, among other issues, before he left that project. I believe it got a lot of push back from the community over there - it would relegate a significant feature of the game's combat to randomized events. Doubtful it would gain traction with Zij and co. for HIP for similar gameplay, not to mention time, reasons as well.

He wanted to take out riding and just represent it through events(which wouyld take the fun out of it). I'm suggesting adding some appropriate events for balance

 

[evan1119]

He wanted to take out riding and just represent it through events(which wouyld take the fun out of it). I'm suggesting adding some appropriate events for balance

Okay. So perhaps an event that fires whenever a holding is looted, that would allow the proceeds of the raid to be added immediately to the raiders coffers. That I can get behind.

In my mind there are two problems, both related, to sea raiding as currently implemented: 1) the problem of maintenance, both levies and navies and 2) how proceeds are returned to the raider.

I think both can be addressed if you take the boat out of the equation and have all proceeds go straight into the coffers of the raider - akin to raiding a neighboring county.