Balearic Islands

[Ebusitanus]

I was surpirsed to see that the Balearic Islands in this game sport two harbors on their nothern islands (modern Mallorca and Minorca) and start out Punic while the southern Island (actual Ibiza) comes out bare. Taking into consideration when this game begins it shocked me how these two bigger islands are the core while historically they were for most of the game´s time frame basically semi barbaric. Mallorca was not conquered from its original inhabitants till 123BC by the romans. The only punic presence on this island were several small trading outposts, no colonies. Aside of regular trade the island was basically only used to provide its famed mercenary slingers.

Much of the same can be said about Minorca which aside of also providing slingers and some trade barely saw the arrival and departure of the Cathaginian general Mago on its way to Liguria after having lost mainland Hispania to the romans.

On the contrary actual Ibiza (Punic Iboshim) was an established phoenician, and later Carthaginian, colony and city. Important trade hub at the time between Carthage and the Iberian levantine communities. This city established around the 7th Century BC, which was for all effects punic, not a trade outpost, is being despicted as some bare rock in the game

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibiza#History

Whats going on?

 

[Stars_and_Bars]

I was surpirsed to see that the Balearic Islands in this game sport two harbors on their nother islands (modern Mallorca and Minorca) and start out Punic while the southern Island (actual Ibiza) comes out bare. Taking into consideration when this game begins its shocked me how these tow bigger islands are the core while historically they were for most of the game´s time frame basically semi barbaric. Mallorca was not conquered from its original inhabitants till 123BC by the romans. The only punic presence on this island were several small trading outposts, no colonies. Aside of regular trade the island was basically only used to provide its famed mercenary slingers.

Much of the same can be said about Minorca which aside of also providing slingers and some trade barely saw the arrival and departure of the Cathaginian general Mago on its way to Liguria after having lost mainland Hispania to the romans.

On the contrary actual Ibiza (Punic Iboshim) was an established phoenician, and later Carthaginian, colony and city. Important trade hub at the time between Carthage and the Iberian levantine communities. This city established around the 7th Century BC, which was for all effects punic, not a trade outpost, is being despicted as some bare rock in the game

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibiza#History

Whats going on?

Abstractions are necessary. Did you want there to be another culture on the islands? Which culture group? Which religion? Did you want another country starting there? As a vassal or independent of Carthage?

 

[Ebusitanus]

Abstractions are necessary. Did you want there to be another culture on the islands? Which culture group? Which religion? Did you want another country starting there? As a vassal or independent of Carthage?

Well, ideally yes, since the balearics were simply not a single enity. Like you can have several groups popping up in Sardinia or Crete, why not the Balearics just like it was in reality? The southern island was a completely different ethno cultural population.

Or, at least, place the civilitzed capitol of that imaginary Punic island group where it would belong historically in Ibiza/Iboshim. If the northern island (Minorca) gets a port, why on earth not the precise place on the whole island group where there was one? Just sloppy research IMHO

 

[Ketchup & friends]

Whats going on?

We think this is an incomplete change from an early pre-release version. Note that Gymnaesia has gender equality unlike ohter Punic countries (except Gadir) - but like the native tribes in Spain. Our theory is that originally, Gymnaesia was going to be a native country, but at some point before release Paradox decided to make them a Carthaginian feudatory instead and changed their government, culture and pops.

at least, place the civilitzed capitol of that imaginary Punic island group where it would belong historically in Ibiza/Iboshim. If the northern island (Minorca) gets a port, why on earth not the precise place on the whole island group where there was one? Just sloppy research IMHO

Probably Iboshim should be made a separate tag and stay a plutocratic republic and Carthaginian feudatory (obviously with a port but without equal rights).

Mallorca and Minorca should get a new Balearic culture for their pops and become tribal, either as:
- one country (settled or federated tribe) that can keep the name Gymnaesia (that's how the Greeks called the islands).
- Two tribal countries, one for each island. Gynaesia would become a tier 1 formable requireing to controle the whole province that would turn them into a federated tribe.

perhaps a barbarian hotspot could be added in central Mallorca.

On a related topic, Paradox should implement the Accurate Iberia (culture & religion) mod when they do the next two patches.

 

[Ebusitanus]

Thank you Ketchup,
What you say makes alot of sense. A shortcut taken without development of the changes made. Your proposals are also spot on.

Gymnaesia was how the Greeks named the two northern islands of Mallorca and Minorca. The southern two islands (Ibiza/Iboshim and Formentera/ Ophiusis) under punic rule were called by these same Greeks the "Pityusic Islands". This was quite obvious at the time as both island groups were also seen as distinct entities from one another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pityusic_Islands

One can but hope that this oversight and historical error might be changed in the future.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

This was quite obvious at the time as both island groups were also seen as distinct entities from one another.

Okay, that would means we should throw out our two-countires proposal, since Mallorca would be able to conquer Minorca and from Gymnaesia in a year.
Moreover, making Gymanaesia a unified nation from the start would allow giving them a unique heritage that reflects the Balearic slingers.

Some more questions:
What would be a better name for the new culutre, Balearic or Talaiotic?
And to which culture group should it belong? According to Wikipedia they were similar to the Nuraghic culture in Sardinia, that would put them into the Pre-Indo-European group.

 

[Ebusitanus]

What would be a better name for the new culutre, Balearic or Talaiotic?
And to which culture group should it belong? According to Wikipedia they were similar to the Nuraghic culture in Sardinia, that would put them into the Pre-Indo-European group.

I would certainly go along with the Talaiotic culture and I believe your linking it to the Nuraghic culture of Sardinia is spot on. It would seem that Ibiza/Iboshim had been of the same cultural group before the arrival of the Phoenicians in 650BC and them taking over the island. Much like in the areas where these same Phoenicians landed and settled in Sardinia, Ibiza's ancient culture and people were utterly destroyed, paving the way to a truly phoenician (and later punic) enclave.