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Kallocain

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Sorry for giving you guys a hard time, i think we're all just really stoked about the balance, because we know we're going to spend so much time in this even though we know it can't be perfect we want it to be ;)

No worries! By modding, you can get much closer to exactly how YOU want it, which is the whole point. I love modding too. :)
 
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lekim

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it is probably a god mod to get more historical. But I have a felling that you make minors unplayable and that you will screw up the overall combat do, if you increase the defense as much as your indicating, you will even have problem to get through with mech inf+tanks.
When minors were ever playable?
I share your concern that is why I made this post :)
Well I actually like it, think of finish war - russians had a huge problem getting through, cause defending well trained troops are a big egg to swallow. Think of any offensive operation, the rule is 5:1 or 10:1, massive fire power needed. It actually sounds better and better to me. The questions is what u do if soviets spam inf as hell and you cannot get through anymore. But then you have your mobile breakthrough troops like tanks who move and encircle.
Now I am really looking forward to make the changes :D
 

77Hawk77

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No worries! By modding, you can get much closer to exactly how YOU want it, which is the whole point. I love modding too. :)

I preordered the moment i realised how fantastic the modding support for hoi4 is, i am so excited i am going to spend all day on this forum insted of being productive.
 
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Dichologos

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Balance mods are all well and good.

However, you have to realize that the developers have had the benefit of thousands of hours of Quality Assurance testing and development itself in which to help balance and refine the gameplay experience.

If you think that it will be easy to do better than they have, given that, without the game being out for "quite" a long time and devoting thousands of hours to it yourself, you might have a lot more frustration than you have bargained for.

At the end of the day, also, what counts as "balanced" is fairly subjective in this kind of game. Balance should be between what a single nation can do in certain circumstances, but every single nation in this game is unevenly matched against its enemies in one way or another, and every decision you make can make you exceedingly unbalanced in the long run. Whether that lack of balance is in somehow joining the USSR faction as something like communist France and then being able to conquer most of Europe with the help of the USSR, or deciding as Japan that you will fight an early war with America and China at the same time and putting yourself needlessly in harms way.

I want to make interesting decisions, and have strategic choices that matter. But pure balance will never exist in this kind of a game, as there is no possible way to make any possible war "fair" in the game. Even in multiplayer with actual humans facing one-another, one side will "always" have a starting advantage over the other, and while this can be minimized through proper nation selection and perhaps specific rules you set for what you are allowed to do as nations, it will still exist.

But that's fine. I'm alright with the concept of being at a disadvantage, because you still can make meaningful strategic decisions while at one - and the victory is all the sweeter if things were stacked against you. I'm also alright with occasionally being at an advantage.
 

BattleMoose

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I think making a mod is one of the most constructive ways to react to something you feel is not to your liking or would improve the game. :) Balancing this stuff is really, really hard, and everyone has difference preferences as well, so we can't get it exactly right for everyone anyway.

I belong to a group of people who have hundreds of hours playing HOI3 in all sorts of varieties, most of it multiplayer. We care a very great deal about balance. As far as I am aware, we all applied for BETA and again as far as I am aware none of us got in. It left me just, very confused. There is this group of very dedicated individuals with the time, experience, skill and inclination to help with the development of the balance of the game. But there was just zero interest on your side.

What gives? Why would PI choose not to take advantage of us?
 

lekim

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Balance mods are all well and good.

However, you have to realize that the developers have had the benefit of thousands of hours of Quality Assurance testing and development itself in which to help balance and refine the gameplay experience.

If you think that it will be easy to do better than they have, given that, without the game being out for "quite" a long time and devoting thousands of hours to it yourself, you might have a lot more frustration than you have bargained for.

At the end of the day, also, what counts as "balanced" is fairly subjective in this kind of game. Balance should be between what a single nation can do in certain circumstances, but every single nation in this game is unevenly matched against its enemies in one way or another, and every decision you make can make you exceedingly unbalanced in the long run. Whether that lack of balance is in somehow joining the USSR faction as something like communist France and then being able to conquer most of Europe with the help of the USSR, or deciding as Japan that you will fight an early war with America and China at the same time and putting yourself needlessly in harms way.

I want to make interesting decisions, and have strategic choices that matter. But pure balance will never exist in this kind of a game, as there is no possible way to make any possible war "fair" in the game. Even in multiplayer with actual humans facing one-another, one side will "always" have a starting advantage over the other, and while this can be minimized through proper nation selection and perhaps specific rules you set for what you are allowed to do as nations, it will still exist.

But that's fine. I'm alright with the concept of being at a disadvantage, because you still can make meaningful strategic decisions while at one - and the victory is all the sweeter if things were stacked against you. I'm also alright with occasionally being at an advantage.

Well, how should put it then, yes u are absolutely right (in fact I would rather have my mod integrated into the game and being properly tested and so) and I dont know whether the current balance and AI is intentional or not.
I could never have the entire europe in AoD as Italy by 1941, in fact even playing as germany i died several times just because i wanted my navy a bit better and produced 10 inf divisions too few (against AI on normal difficulty, wont even talk about bhutan and costa rica experience. So I want the same experience with the new HoI which actually feels from control point of view much better than AoD.
 

Dichologos

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Well, how should put it then, yes u are absolutely right (in fact I would rather have my mod integrated into the game and being properly tested and so) and I dont know whether the current balance and AI is intentional or not.
I could never have the entire europe in AoD as Italy by 1941, in fact even playing as germany i died several times just because i wanted my navy a bit better and produced 10 inf divisions too few (against AI on normal difficulty, wont even talk about bhutan and costa rica experience. So I want the same experience with the new HoI which actually feels from control point of view much better than AoD.

Well I wish you the best in your attempts at everything. Modding is a great thing, but also very difficult to do properly.
 

lekim

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Well I wish you the best in your attempts at everything. Modding is a great thing, but also very difficult to do properly.
Thanks,
My plan is simple:
1. Play one game normal, germany.
2. Change inf stats, lets the game run AI only starting 39 (take a safe from the game one) for a couple years and see what happens if ok.
3. Play the second game normal, germany starting 36, changed inf stats. Let see what happens.

Concerning global decision, you are absolutely right this is actually the fun part of this game. But why do i need to make US axis if I can conquer the Europe by 1940. You only go an extra mile if you need it. I remember play off whether I desperately need Portugal to join Axis to keep Italy in Africa and spend a lot of money to do it.
 

joeenochs

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No matter what, the game should present some kind of challenge in SP in vanilla. Only then can there be interesting decisions. If you can steamroll everybody, it is not interesting. This should be part of the base product we pay for and not of some mod some years in the future, if we are lucky.
 
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Kallocain

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I belong to a group of people who have hundreds of hours playing HOI3 in all sorts of varieties, most of it multiplayer. We care a very great deal about balance. As far as I am aware, we all applied for BETA and again as far as I am aware none of us got in. It left me just, very confused. There is this group of very dedicated individuals with the time, experience, skill and inclination to help with the development of the balance of the game. But there was just zero interest on your side.

What gives? Why would PI choose not to take advantage of us?

Because we have LOTS of very dedicated betas who also care? Also, it would be breaking the NDA to tell other people you got in, so maybe some of your friends did.
 
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