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Jul 10, 2007
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Allowing ranged units to use hit & run tactics was one of the most noticeable absences from the first game. I remember reading somewhere that cyberlore removed it because it unbalanced the game in favour of ranged units. Under the current system, if a ranger started using hit & run tactics, that warrior wouldn't stand a chance, as he would never be able to catch up and actually attack. The fighting system would have to undergo other changes to prevent the system being unbalanced.

My suggestions:
1. Reduce the variations in speed between class. It makes no sense that paladins are so fast and warriors so slow. Even lightly armoured barbarians are slow moving. Reduce the gap between the fastest and the slowest characters so that ranged units aren't so much faster than melee units. Each class would have three different speeds: walking, running and sprinting.

2. Introduce a stamina system (I've pinched this from another topic). Heroes should expend stamina all the time but generally they also regain stamina at a fixed rate (that increases if they are resting). Each task costs stamina and undergoing multiple tasks lowers stamina even more. Some tasks (like sprinting) reduce stamina rapidly. Some classes would have more stamina (warriors) while others will have less (wizards).

Scenario:
A warrior is attacked by a ranger using hit & run tactics. They warrior decides to chase after the ranger, expending stamina at a slow rate (warriors can run a long way). The ranger starts to retreat to a safe distance to fire again, expending his stamina at a similar rate to the warrior, until he again fires at the warrior, which lowers his stamina even more. The more the ranger fires, the quicker his stamina bar falls compared to the warrior.

This goes on until either:
The warrior dies, which is unlikely if they are a similar level.
The warrior gives up and decides to flee (ranger chases after him).
The warrior gambles by sprinting up to the ranger as he aims for another shot, either engaging him in melee or being left exhausted and an easy target. An experienced warrior is more likely to choose the right moment. An experienced ranger is less likely to give him the chance.
The ranger finds a melee ally, who engages the warrior (if he doesn't flee) while the ranger stays at range (the warrior may also meet allies).
(Most likely) The ranger is too tired to fire and keep moving. He must decide to engage the warrior (original majesty style) or stop firing and flee.
(Inexperienced ranger) The ranger leaves his decision to flee too late and is left too tired to flee the warrior who catches up to him.

The outcome would be affected by different variables.
Random factors (does the warrior trip? does the ranger lead him into a group of allies?)
Fighting ability (is the ranger able to land that head shot?)
Stamina (who can last longer?)
Experience
Class (some classes will be less likely to flee (WoDs)
 

Alfryd

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Jul 9, 2007
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These all seem fairly sensible suggestions, though my own would vary somewhat. I do agree that basic speed differences should be reduced substantially, and be based on stature, extent and encumbrance, rather than class. Paladins should be slower, barbs and monks faster. I might have to think about it some more.

I actually prefer the idea that you wouldn't model stamina as a seperate guage, but record fatigue as a form of nonlethal damage on the hero's main HP bar.
The ranger finds a melee ally, who engages the warrior (if he doesn't flee) while the ranger stays at range (the warrior may also meet allies).
I would amend this by saying that firing into melee is both difficult and raises the possibility of hitting targets at random- i.e, friendly fire.
 
Jul 10, 2007
43
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Different class speeds and stamina:

Class - Walk - Run - Sprint - Stamina
Adept - Fast - Fast - Very Fast - Long
Barbarian - Normal - Fast - Very Fast - Very Long
Cultist - Fast - Normal - Normal - Short
Dwarf - Slow - Slow - Slow - Long
Elf - Normal - Fast - Normal - Normal
Gnome - Normal - Very Fast - Very Fast - Short
Healer - Normal - Normal - Fast - Normal
Monk - Normal - Slow - Slow - Long
Paladin - Normal - Slow - Slow - Long*
Priestess - Normal - Fast - Fast - Short
Ranger - Normal - Fast - Normal - Long
Rouge - Fast - Fast - Fast - Normal
Solarii - Normal - Fast - Fast - Long
Warrior - Normal - Slow - Slow - Very Long
WoD - Slow - Slow - Slow - Very Long
Wizard - Slow - Slow - Fast - Very Short**

I've tended to make the quicker characters the ones with less stamina.

*I've never undestood why paladins are quicker that warriors in Maj 1
**Rincewind-esque wizards. Run very fast but would tire very quickly.
 
Jul 10, 2007
43
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Alfryd said:
I actually prefer the idea that you wouldn't model stamina as a seperate guage, but record fatigue as a form of nonlethal damage on the hero's main HP bar.

I didn't go into much detail with the stamina suggestion because it had its own topic and I only wanted to suggest how it would effect hit & run engagements. I would personally have it as a hidden stat (maybe indicated by a different animation for moving so the player has some idea how tired a hero is).

Alfryd said:
I would amend this by saying that firing into melee is both difficult and raises the possibility of hitting targets at random- i.e, friendly fire.

It all depends how detailed paradox want the combat system to be. . .

. . .Of course, if the rangers are so skilled that they go about wearing blindfolds to make things interesting. . . :p
 
Aug 22, 2006
555
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Another way to solve the ranged unit problem would be to let the first shot take some time to prepare, after that the shots come quicker. The shots would do pretty good damage but only be effective within a certain zone away from the archer. When too close to the target, the archer needs to go to melee or retreat. This would make the ranged unit more of an explore and support unit, as it should be. Toe-on-toe with an equal leveled warrior the only chance to survive should be to flee.

A stamina system and revised unitspeed might be a good idea though. Having hit-and-run units in the game feels like a big risk, if not done well. Seeing the units chasing after eachother around the map gets boring pretty quick.