[Balancing] Balancing of casts (like the 'super steam beam')

[unmerged(169894)]

Now, i know that this topic will divide the community right up but I think that there are a few things i think need to be rebalanced-

*The super steam beam (steam+steam+steam+arcane+lightning)
*Super steam AoE (steam+steam+steam+lightning+arcane) OR (steam+lightning+arcane+arcane+arcane) on arena effect
*frost/water/lightning/arcane projectiles (fire to turn the second frost into water) (maybe)
*frost/shield/lightning/lightning/lightning barricade (maybe)

These deal too much damage, and i feel go against what the devs had in mind.

*Supercharged area shield bubble

Can be made to have game breaking hp, take the challenge out of the game

Add things you think are unbalanced, and discuss things brought up, but keep your posts on topic and constructive, whether you agree, or disagree.

 

[unmerged(259169)]

Indeed, the steam + lightning combo is pretty redicolous compared to just about everything else in the game. Making mobs wet AND hit them with lightning in the same spell/beam/aoe is rather silly and makes alot of the magicks seem useless in comparison.

 

[DaFranker]

You forgot the humongous spiky ball of doom, AKA Frost-Frost-Frost-Frost-Earth. Though I'd have to say that the ridiculous time to first bring up the elements and then charge the projectile shot balances out the ridiculous damage it does. For complete sillyness, throw it fully charged at a large group of frozen-solid beastmen. I can guarantee it'll give you the "It's raining (beast)men" achievement (and possibly also "Deep Impact" or even "MU-MU-MU-MULTIKILL!" if there were a bunch of goblins in the way).

Naturally, the above still remains useless against those damned yetis. Though I recently discovered that there's nothing like a little bit of charm (wink wink) to calm a hungry yeti.

 

[unmerged(259169)]

Spells like massive earth balls doing huge damage isn't really a problem as you have to expose yourself by standing still and charging them and its a single attack so if your enemies aren't bunched together its not that powerfull.

A steam beam however can clear the entire map fairly quickly since you can move it around and it has no chargeup period or anything.

 

[unmerged(255679)]

Steam Beam is super powerful, but I like it that way. If you feel its over powered then there is nobody forcing you to use it no?

 

[Luckmann]

You forgot the humongous spiky ball of doom, AKA Frost-Frost-Frost-Frost-Earth. Though I'd have to say that the ridiculous time to first bring up the elements and then charge the projectile shot balances out the ridiculous damage it does. For complete sillyness, throw it fully charged at a large group of frozen-solid beastmen. I can guarantee it'll give you the "It's raining (beast)men" achievement (and possibly also "Deep Impact" or even "MU-MU-MU-MULTIKILL!" if there were a bunch of goblins in the way).

Naturally, the above still remains useless against those damned yetis. Though I recently discovered that there's nothing like a little bit of charm (wink wink) to calm a hungry yeti.

Earth + Ice x4 does feel a bit ridiculous compared to a straight Earth x5. It should of course be stronger, but the difference here is immense. On the other hand, if they nerf it, I have no idea how to get the "It's Over 9000" achievement. But again, on the third hand, you never should balance a game around achievements.

 

[Vingdoloras]

I like the balancing how it is right now. Don't wanna be too weak

I often use the steam lightning beam, BUT I also use a lot of other spells (like water beaming the enemy front line and then freeze lightning beaming them all).

Sometimes you need such a strong spell. You don't want to have to fight every single creature for ages just because you can't use high-dmg spells.

 

[Alweth]

People get too worked up over the big damage of the "The super steam beam"--honestly Lightning+Arcane+Cold is more broken. It takes way less time to cast, still does very good damage, and basically stops the target(s) from doing anything. Against melee opponents all you have to do is spam the AOE and you're guaranteed to win.

But yes, I agree that the damage beams are overpowered. They outshine their counterparts in almost every relevant way. Often significantly.

 

[Vingdoloras]

Earth + Ice x4 does feel a bit ridiculous compared to a straight Earth x5. It should of course be stronger, but the difference here is immense. On the other hand, if they nerf it, I have no idea how to get the "It's Over 9000" achievement. But again, on the third hand, you never should balance a game around achievements.

Wet a target, then Thunderbolt it. Happened to me by accident when I used Thunderbolt for the very first time. I thought it always does such great damage, and I was a bit disappointed when casting it again on a not so wet enemy

 

[Vingdoloras]

People get too worked up over the big damage of the "The super steam beam"--honestly Lightning+Arcane+Cold is more broken. It takes way less time to cast, still does very good damage, and basically stops the target(s) from doing anything. Against melee opponents all you have to do is spam the AOE and you're guaranteed to win.

But yes, I agree that the damage beams are overpowered. They outshine their counterparts in almost every relevant way. Often significantly.

If you want a rebalance because beams are stronger than non-beams, I'd want the devs to make the beams a bit weaker and non-beams a bit stronger instead of just totally nerfing beams. Also, keep beam spell damage a good bit higher than non beam spell damage, because beams are focussed spells, many (or all?) non beam spells have an AoE effect in front of you.

 

[unmerged(259169)]

Beams are focused yes, but they have longer range, easier to aim and they last longer. Especially when compared to lighting/fire/cold based cone spells or charge up spells such as earth based spells. But yes i agree they should not just nerf the steambeam but rather tone it down a good, preferably make the steam + lightning combo impossible because it removes the whole idea of using a water based attack and follow up with either lighting or ice. Then look at the magicks to make them more attractive, some of them are just not powerfull enough to motivate the complicated combinations (especially when using a controller).

 

[unmerged(256128)]

I personally can agree a bit with the statement that the steam beams are just too plain crazy (ESPECIALLY if you have one ally you trust, and that guy kicks in arcane, lightning, AND COLD!!! -> freezes target while cutting through the masses like butter)

However, given the sheer number of mobs on the high challenge levels, tell me how you want to beat all that without a) taking huge risks or b) using the OP stuff you mention here.

I rather like the idea of a few spells being uber-powerful. It makes the player try to experiment and explore to find the coolest and strongest combos.

What would probably not be too bad: A bit of nerfing of the steam beam AND the creeps (because let's face it: Without the steam beam you can just fire a plain whole damn minute at some of the bigger mobs without them even dropping a tear...)

 

[Ellye]

Earth + Ice x4 does feel a bit ridiculous compared to a straight Earth x5. It should of course be stronger, but the difference here is immense. On the other hand, if they nerf it, I have no idea how to get the "It's Over 9000" achievement. But again, on the third hand, you never should balance a game around achievements.

Just make a target solid frozen (water it down then freeze it), and then cast a fully charged earth x5 on it. It will deal more than 9000. You might need a friend to keep your target frozen solid while you charge up.

As for rebalancing spells: I believe that Ice+Shield+Lightning+Arcane sword enchantment is too strong - though fun as hell.

 

[Luckmann]

What I'd like to know is the rationale behind Beams lasting almost forever, while Cones only last for a few seconds.

 

[Vingdoloras]

What I'd like to know is the rationale behind Beams lasting almost forever, while Cones only last for a few seconds.

I think cones should last a lot (like 5 or 10 seconds? what do you think?) longer, beams' duration shouldnt be changed (or maybe tweaked down just a little bit, but not too much). I almost never use the beam till it ends anyway.

 

[Vingdoloras]

What I'd like to know is the rationale behind Beams lasting almost forever, while Cones only last for a few seconds.

I think cones should last a lot (like 5 or 10 seconds? what do you think?) longer, beams' duration shouldnt be changed (or maybe tweaked down just a little bit, but not too much). I almost never use the beam till it ends anyway.

 

[unmerged(255806)]

While balancing is being discussed, I also feel that area aura protections (multiple element + shield + selfcast) don't last long enough for the investment put in them, making a shielding role in multiplayer much harder to pull off.

 

[unmerged(257946)]

Steam Beam is super powerful, but I like it that way. If you feel its over powered then there is nobody forcing you to use it no?

That may be true, but it definitely doesn't prevent you getting slapped with it while it bounces off someone's self shield. Only it's whored so bad that most of the time I'm winding up being revived because that damn thing one shot me. Worse one was when 3 beams merged and hit my self shield, I'm not quite sure what happened because the game instantly CTD...

I agree, the damn thing needs to be balanced. I find in solo it only helps with the big targets, if I wanna take them down without any strategy. On multiplayer it's just too much.

 

[unmerged(259283)]

First off: I'm not against fixing bugs, like the "Supercharged area shield bubble", but as soon as players start ranting about nerfing, the game becomes less fun to play. I've seen it before, hate to see it happen again with this game. So please devs, be careful with what you change.

Remember, the game is about exploring and discover that killer combination. You have the power in you from the get go, few other games have that. And not everyone reads forums or watches walkthroughs, what should they find in a couple of months when the game is 'balanced'? Some spells should be powerful, and I think this was the part of the plan. One of the spells in question is eight keystrokes - that's hard enough for me to get right when things get though.

And btw. nerfing is the wrong solution, I say add a "Hardcore"-mode, or even better: "Are you insane?"-mode. Double the enemy HP, triple it or quadruple it, add more immunities, give the enemies the same superspells, but don't change our spells. "Normal"-mode being the one we play right now. This way we let the new players explore the game, just like we did, and the more experienced players tackle the buffed up enemies.

 

[zr0iq]

Indeed, the steam + lightning combo is pretty redicolous compared to just about everything else in the game. Making mobs wet AND hit them with lightning in the same spell/beam/aoe is rather silly and makes alot of the magicks seem useless in comparison.

Ehh no, learn your magicks, makes you a better wizard than just beaming.