Balance proposal

[AmberT]

I played 50 match 1v1 in closed beta and more than 50 in open. Most of the matches were against the strongest players. This is how I see the balance of divisions:

15th Infantry Scots - too strong we ban them in matches against each other.

English Airborne - A bit stronger than it should be.

352 "Pegasus" - very good! the ideal to which one should strive.

12 SS is a good strong deck.

6 tank American - medium need to be strengthened.

Luftlande is a weak deck.

By tabs:

The German support tab needs to be strengthened.

All AA defense must be cheaper.

It is necessary to refine the tab of aviation.

I propose the following changes in the balance:

15th Infantry Scots - Crocodile and Avre transfer from phase A to phase B


12 SS - Firefly reduce the price from 200 to 180. Panzer 4 J and Panzer 4 H reduce the price by 10 from 130 to 120 and 150 to 140.


6 tank American - CMD M4A1 reduce the price from 130 to 120. M4A3 (75) reduce 160 to 150. M4A3 (76) reduce 180 to 170.


Luftlande - Fs-jager replace PanzerFaust 60 with Panzerschreck or reduce the price from 50 to 40. PaK 36 37mm reduce the price to 25. Add a fighter to the phase A.

BF 109 G6 / R6 reduce the price from 140 to 125.

 

[Raventhefuhrer]

I... pretty much agree with everything you said. Well done.

My personal observation is that artillery and especially mortars are way out of line. Mortars aim too quickly, fire too quickly, and with too much accuracy. They're very frustrating to play against, and have very little counterplay because counter battery is basically useless.

 

[Harold Alexander]

Laurels of the former field-marshal dont give rest to someone.

I played 50 match 1v1 in closed beta and more than 50 in open.

With the same play style, lol. And now you asking about balance changes (noobchanges), when you absolutely dont understand how to play with different decks.

IMO it's too early to talk about balance, because nobody have a lot experience in this game, and because we have only 2 maps and only 4 decks.

 

[Vyllis]

I am not found on 1v1 balance opinion in this game,
Like Luft is weak in 1v1, yea, yea. But in team game i was able to transform entire cities and bocages into fallout like wasteland giving my allies the possibility to push the enemy into their spawn zone.

This is clearly not WG general deck rule & 1v1 arena, i am satisfied with that. Going to wait and see the new divisions they hinted us about on the last blog.

 

[AmberT]

Laurels of the former field-marshal dont give rest to someone.

With the same play style, lol. And now you asking about balance changes (noobchanges), when you absolutely dont understand how to play with different decks.

IMO it's too early to talk about balance, because nobody have a lot experience in this game.

So my proposal is very accurate. I suggest correcting very cleansing things.

 

[Harold Alexander]

I am not found on 1v1 balance opinion in this game,
Like Luft is weak in 1v1, yea, yea. But in team game i was able to transform entire cities and bocages into fallout like wasteland giving my allies the possibility to push the enemy into their spawn zone.

This is clearly not WG general deck rule & 1v1 arena, i am satisfied with that. Going to wait and see the new divisions they hinted us about on the last blog.

yes you are right, 203 mm arty is really strong, very good and useful unit in 2x2 3x3 and even in 1x1 because 120 pts is not that much, and you have very cheap infantry options with erzatzschutzen spam. On Pointe du Hoc map Luftlande deck is very very good.

But I am partially agreed with "BF 109 G6 / R6 reduce the price from 140 to 125." This plane is not very good.

 

[AmberT]

yes you are right, 203 mm arty is really strong, very good and useful unit in 2x2 3x3 and even in 1x1 because 120 pts is not that much, and you have very cheap infantry options with erzatzschutzen spam. On Pointe du Hoc map Luftlande deck is very very good.

But I am partially agreed with "BF 109 G6 / R6 reduce the price from 140 to 125." This plane is not very good.

Please tell me why the super heavy tanks should be in phase A of the infantry deck? This is not even the medium Firefly!

 

[Harold Alexander]

So my proposal is very accurate. I suggest correcting very cleansing things.

No, because in 90% you was played on that map with big Factory, and because this is 1x1 balance suggestions you need to take into consideration the 1x1 balance between decks of one side. Axis vs Axis and Allies vs Allies.

We all know how unbalanced was tropic thunder and some other maps in wargame 1x1 ranked, and maybe this is not deck but map problem. So I dont understand balance suggestions with small experience, when most maps and decks are not available. This is my point.

 

[Harold Alexander]

Please tell me why the super heavy tanks should be in phase A of the infantry deck? This is not even the medium Firefly!

Please tell my why not? Different decks have different starting options, and this is reality of this game. One deck have strong arty on phase A, other have tanks, other very strong AT plane, other tank with very good cannon etc. I am fine with that, because I dont want the same symmetry what we have in wargame after last patches.

 

[AmberT]

No, because in 90% you was played on that map with big Factory

Nop you are wrong . i like poinde du hoc! Even on poinde du hoc Luftlande can`t win 6th armored!

 

[ZhukoDim]

Please tell me why the super heavy tanks should be in phase A of the infantry deck? This is not even the medium Firefly!

I agreed here. It is against the main Euegen rule - Phase A recon and light forces skirmishes. But maybe better reduce turning speed of medium and heavy vehicle/tanks instead? I think right now they doing this way too fast.

 

[Baane]

Please tell my why not?

Because it, for lack of a better set of words, sounds retarded.

 

[Sharkey Ward]

Balancing the game around 1v1 mlg esports "every division has a chance" is a nice way to ruin a historical wargame. If you pick an airborne division to fight over 10km of open fields you should get your ass stomped by an armored division with little to no effort. Pretty much every single one of your opinions just sound like you failing to understand how the game is played.

i never had a problem sending the 15th scottish infantry to the doctor to show him on the doll where the germans touched him. Shermans could use a price reduction, but to 140 for the M4A3(75)W and 160 for the M4A3(76)W; This way the 150 points of phase C income would allow you to alternate between buying a sherman 75 one minute and a 76 the next, making it so you can maybe counter the dozen panthers german divisions bring out. The firefly is decently priced at 200 points for phase A, since it's so materially superior to anything any allied division gets at the start the high cost is justifiable and the G6 is equally, if not more, capable than american ASFs so it's fine at the current price.

The 352nd was just insanely overpowered in phase C with the completely invulnerable Jagdpanther, they could literally save up some minutes of income and then buy 3 jagdpanthers, order them to attack move to the enemy spawn and wait for the Allies to ragequit.

 

[Harold Alexander]

Because it, for lack of a better set of words, sounds retarded.

Most retarded thing is the balance suggestions with 2 maps in the game and with 4 divisions, and symmetry balance is poor retarded thing too.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

What is the reasoning for the Beute Firefly being in Phase A? I am not saying it is 'wrong' or a terrible idea, I'm just asking what the thought process behind it was. I know there's only one of them, but it's better than most Phase B and C Allied tanks.

With armored cars generally being Phase B, it just seems... odd.

 

[Baane]

Most retarded thing is the balance suggestions with 2 maps in the game and with 4 divisions, and symmetry balance is poor retarded thing too.

And I would say that the most retarded thing is your thread-by-thread insistence that everyone who posts a suggestion about a game in beta - the stage where player feedback is supposed to matter most - is a "newbie."

 

[Harold Alexander]

And I would say that the most retarded thing is your thread-by-thread insistence that everyone who posts a suggestion about a game in beta - the stage where player feedback is supposed to matter most - is a "newbie."

Beta suggestions are important, especially about mechanics and bugs, and generally underperformed units like the AT guns which are very very vulnerable. But talking about "GAME" balance on 2 maps with 4 decks is the really retarded bullshit. Why I am talking about newbies, because everyone in this game are newbie, how many tactics do you tested with different decks, how many different openings, I do not think that more than 4-5.

 

[Harold Alexander]

And hopefully Eugen would not listening to all this crying noobs, with absolutely no experience and without the desire to learn different strategies

 

[mitchverr]

A few agreements and disagreements, anything i dont mention I agree with.

15th Scots are strong, but i suspect this will change, personally I think they are as strong as 12 SS.

352 were also a very strong deck in my view.

american armour is in need of its tanks being looked at.

Luftlande dramatically could use changes, much more units per cards of stugs is the main 1 here.

German support tab in my view is fine for 352 and to a degree the others, the infantry guns make great supporting assets as seen in other decks, however right now the AVRE is shutting this down, its hard to judge this tab fairly simply due to the AVRE, which I suspect will be nerfed to AV 9/10 in the near future.

I agree, AA defence does need to be cheaper for what it does, though the 88s..... Hard to say really given their big range and ability to fire upon tanks.

I wouldnt remove the AVRE/croc from phase A, they are important, without them there, phase A 15th will only have 95mm churchills outside of light tanks. To be honest I dont find the croc all that amazing other than acting as a shield vs a firefly attack, though it could be a phase B unit i guess. AVRE will likely go to AV 9, meaning it isnt all that amazing anymore given its 600m range.

If you price buff the panzer 4s, you will have to do the same for churchills, as the churchills are actually a bit worse then the panzer 4s really.


Cant really comment on the AT stuff at the end.


I would say as i said in other threads, armoured cars should be a bit more available to those whom dont have them in phase A aswell, giving those vehicles a purpose.

 

[Harold Alexander]

Do you know that Luftlande is the extremely strong vs Hitler Youth division, you can annihilate it with this one AT Henschel Hs 123, because they dont have any decent AA or interceptor options on the phase A?