Balance Pass on Energy weapons vs ++ / +++ Weapons

[CrimsonSDWS]

Hello My Fellow Mechwarriors,

As Tyler has already alluded to in the AMA, they are actively working on balancing weapons, specifically LosTech against ++ / +++ Weapons.

My Suggestion is to reduce the heat of all Energy weapons back down to their TT value x 3. For example Med Pulse Laser would have 12 heat (as opposed to 20) and ER Med would be 15 (as opposed to 25).

To balance out the + weapons, they would receive an extra 3 heat per plus on Med Lasers. Med Laser + would have 13 heat, ++ = 16, and +++ would be 19.

This would increase to 5 per plus for Large Lasers (24 base heat instead of 30) so Lrg Laser + would be 29, ++ would be 34 and +++ would be 39.

Finally PPC would be base 30 heat, and 6 heat per plus. PPC + = 36, PPC ++ = 42, PPC +++ = 48. ER PPC is 45 instead of 50.

That way there is a cost vs benefit to doing more damage or more accuracy and give value to just the stock weapons themselves. The lostech weapons would make sense to use. I will add a complete table once I have typed everything up.

 

[Fox the Apprentice]

Honestly? I expected the PPC to be much worse off than it is. It's led to me wanting to test changes with gameplay before I start judging them.

If I had to have an opinion, then I think adjusting the DHS capability would be high on my list. Start with a nerf to only sink 5 heat, see where that puts us.

Drop PPC heat by 3-4, and Large Laser heat by 3-5.

Each + on a weapon would add 2 heat. I think a full heat sink's worth might be a bit much. Again, testing at this value would be required.

Each ER weapon counts as a ++ for heat (so an ERML would have the same heat as a ML++), and the range boost would be adjusted accordingly (I haven't used them enough to have a feel for how much extra range would be worth it).

Each pulse weapon counts as a ++ for heat, and the damage is right in the middle of the original laser and the next laser. (so a MPL would do 32 damage).

Each pulse/ER weapon would have their own + and ++ variations.

 

[Lt Loco]

Honestly, it feels like the Basic/+/++/+++ system was intended as a way to add some progression to the game, but it's backfired in that the LosTech weapons are just left behind by "special" standard weapons.

It would probably have been better if they did a ---/--/-/Basic system, where Basic is the stuff we see in multiplayer, and all the negative stuff is broken down, worn, and salvaged stuff that's common on the Periphery. Basically make it so that pirates have barely functional gear, you progress into minor houses, major houses of the periphery, and eventually when you start running stuff for the real players, you run across some normal stuff.

Not only will it make it so that the damage and stability damage don't scale into hilarity (seriously, double stab damage on the LRM is a bad thing for gameplay) but it'll also make it so that the endgame of the campaign and multiplayer run on the same balancing, which is helpful.

EDIT: To clarify, yes, I'm advocating for a nerf of all the weapons down. Less damage in the endgame will make it less of a joke to obliterate assaults and result in less sudden knockdown -> CT blown up. It'll also give melee a subtle buff, and make it so that the early game is slower.

 

[RealCadaver]

Have to agree with Lt Loco on the +++ weapons. They are supposed to be higher quality weapons, should not produce more heat. If they were readily available, as in you could always buy them at every store that would be a different story. Right now, they are not. I have only seen a few +++ weapons (insta buy on those of course. Have not seen any lostech in the game yet. However, if something is better, its better. The rarity and risk is where the balancing comes in.

(BTW, I'm talking SP game only, I have no input on MP).

 

[Bayushi Tasogare]

Honestly? I was quite surprised when I saw that there was no + improvement of energy weapons that reduced heat.

I do think going back to TT Energy weapon heat is a good idea. I'm currently playing with that modded, and it's not exactly pulling me from LRM boating. My Thunderbolt SEs are running a bit cooler, but nothing spectacular.

I would seriously hope that + mods for energy weapons that would reduce heat are on the table for HBS. You could just do a straight -1/2/3/4 for S/M/L/PPC energy weapons per plus, and limit + weapons to only a single plus in the Heat category (or just make is -10% Heat as a blanket value). I would think that going to a % system for all +Dmg and +Stb Dmg weapons would help for balancing.

Or something a bit farther afield might be a ++ or +++ mod for ACs that doesn't increase damage but ignores/mitigates the Cover/Braced damage penalty. There are a lot of options, and I hope that HBS considers as many as can be done in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[A_Unique_Name]

As it stands, stability damage needs to be re-thought.

It is far too easy to stack Stab damage, and it gets cleared off too quickly, as well.

 

[Fox the Apprentice]

As it stands, stability damage needs to be re-thought.

It is far too easy to stack Stab damage, and it gets cleared off too quickly, as well.

I feel that, outside of massed LRMs, stability isn't actually all that bad. Just my opinion, though.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Energy weapons are a complex problem, because the Small Laser is good, the Medium Laser is the best all-around workhorse weapon in the game for most of it, and then everything else is in a shaky or flatly bad place.

But here are two simple tweaks they need to make on the spot:

• SRM4 should use 10 heat, not 8, and it should possibly take up two slots.
• LRM10 should use 4 tons, not 5.

Those would fix small discrepancies that make the SRM4 oddly better among SRMs and the LRM10 oddly worse.

On the whole, I'd like to see a significant nerf of stability damage—preferably by giving a tonnage bonus to mechs' abilitiy to withstand it, so an Atlas is not treated the same as a Locust. Like, if the current stability bar is 100, just add the mech's tonnage to it to get their new and improved stability threshold, seriously. Because right now knockdowns/called shots are impossibly broken, especially once you consider Called Shot Bonus/Mastery and the frequency of Morale abilities on top.

This would serve to make missile spam (both SRM and LRM) less overpowered on the spot, and it would help out some of the weaker energy weapons.

But you can't just make the ML even better! It's already crazy good!

 

[Lt Loco]

I feel that, outside of massed LRMs, stability isn't actually all that bad. Just my opinion, though.

Any of the weapons with +stab modifiers are a problem. AC2's with triple stab damage, AC5s with double.

Also, lasers *already* have +accuracy, they don't need it. By the time you hit endgame, if your pilots don't have Gunnery 10 and a 95% hit chance without any modifiers, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Rabid]

Energy weapons are a complex problem, because the Small Laser is good, the Medium Laser is the best all-around workhorse weapon in the game for most of it, and then everything else is in a shaky or flatly bad place.

But here are two simple tweaks they need to make on the spot:

• SRM4 should use 10 heat, not 8, and it should possibly take up two slots.
• LRM10 should use 4 tons, not 5.

Those would fix small discrepancies that make the SRM4 oddly better among SRMs and the LRM10 oddly worse.

On the whole, I'd like to see a significant nerf of stability damage—preferably by giving a tonnage bonus to mechs' abilitiy to withstand it, so an Atlas is not treated the same as a Locust. Like, if the current stability bar is 100, just add the mech's tonnage to it to get their new and improved stability threshold, seriously. Because right now knockdowns/called shots are impossibly broken, especially once you consider Called Shot Bonus/Mastery and the frequency of Morale abilities on top.

This would serve to make missile spam (both SRM and LRM) less overpowered on the spot, and it would help out some of the weaker energy weapons.

But you can't just make the ML even better! It's already crazy good!

Not going to comment on your suggestions specifically, but worth taking into account that any changes to stability which make it harder to get knockdowns are implicit buffs to medium lasers which already don't get to play the stability damage 'game'.

I can't really see a good way of making stability balanced in its current form, the design actually forces you to stack stability damage hard if you want to ever score knockdowns. It's not like running multiple LRM15s/20s isn't exactly what the game encourages you to do. And if you don't do enough stability damage in a single turn then the enemy can just brace it away so dealing small but constant amounts of stability damage is extremely weak (which is part of why ACs are still weak in spite of buffs).