Balance/Bug: late game western units - Napoleonic Square vs others

[fred.erick]

Hello everyone,

Not sure where to mention this, as it seems wrong to me. The last batch of Western units, while having 4 different options, really only has 1 good option: the Napoleonic Square.

Here's the info, pasted from the wiki page:

Name Fire Off. Fire Def. Shock Off. Shock Def. Morale Off. Morale Def. Total
Jaeger Infantry 10 9 9 8 10 8 54
Drill Infantry 10 10 10 10 7 7 54
Mixed Order Infantry 11 10 11 8 9 8 57
Napoleonic Square 11 10 10 11 9 9 60

As you can see, the only type of infantry that comes close to it is the Mixed Order Infantry. Jaeger Infantry, while implying better offense values, is inferior, and the Drilled Infantry, which is supposed to have the best training, actually has the lowest morale.

I know it's a small thing, but even if we put aside the historical context, I really feel that there should be some advantages/disadvantages to each choice. Otherwise, why bother with 4 (unless, of course, you want to weaken your army on purpose compared to what others pick).

Or am I missing something completely here?

 

[Mackus]

You are not missing anything - Napoleonic Square is highest Level, and is supposed to be best. That is all.

And this is one reason why there is no point to different unit models. Its difficult to make it fun, balanced, or historical. It should just be abstracted as technology bonuses.

 

[Novacat]

Its old news that unit pips are completely screwed. Maybe Paradox will fix it, maybe not.

 

[fred.erick]

Mackus,

All four of thees are at the same tech level - 30. Perhaps you are right and the Napoleonic square should be at tech level 31, rather than 30 (or some of the others should've been 29 rather than 30).
Either way, something in the numbers is wrong, don't you think?

Novacat,

I remember that at a previous patch, some of the pips were adjusted, creating less variety in the units of earlier tech levels, but at least giving each of them a purpose (usually more defense, more offense, or a balance between the two). I don't know why this simplified system wasn't used in the very last tech level, but if they just missed it, I would love to see the issue corrected.

If only so I could imagine my armies being something other than a bunch of Napoleonic squares for a change

 

[Don Dre]

Am I wrong in saying that not all nations will get all the unit types?

I'm sure I gained new unit types once I bordered certain countries

 

[fred.erick]

Am I wrong in saying that not all nations will get all the unit types?

I'm sure I gained new unit types once I bordered certain countries

I actually got old ones in some provinces. Chevauchée, or longbowmen.
Still, not aware of a condition that denies getting Napoleonic Square. I had it as Portugal and Prussia, both pretty far (in European terms) from France.

 

[Straigthtsilver]

The unit variety as a whole needs to be overhauled to be made meaningful.

Most of the non-Western tech groups have no choice at all, or have absurd gaps between new unit types (the Muslim techgroup's infantry in particular suffers from this), While Western tech has far too many 'false choices' with one unit type being clearly better than all the others.

 

[fred.erick]

The unit variety as a whole needs to be overhauled to be made meaningful.

Most of the non-Western tech groups have no choice at all, or have absurd gaps between new unit types (the Muslim techgroup's infantry in particular suffers from this), While Western tech has far too many 'false choices' with one unit type being clearly better than all the others.

Yeah, personally I won't object to any of that
Hopefully it's somewhere on Paradox's TODO list.

 

[highsis]

Something that makes me dumbfounded. I mean, how hard is it to fix? Literally every mod that touches unit pipe makes them balanced.

Units at the same tech level should have different distribution, not different pipe numbers. I didn't expect Paradox to copy/paste EU3 pipes.

 

[fred.erick]

Something that makes me dumbfounded. I mean, how hard is it to fix? Literally every mod that touches unit pipe makes them balanced.

Units at the same tech level should have different distribution, not different pipe numbers. I didn't expect Paradox to copy/paste EU3 pipes.

Hi highsis,
Can you recommend a good mod for unit balancing? I hope they don't break the AI.

 

[highsis]

Hi highsis,
Can you recommend a good mod for unit balancing? I hope they don't break the AI.

Try Meiou; IMO it's the best mod at the moment.

If you only want the unit balance, it's easy to fix it yourself.

 

[delpiero1234]

Try Meiou; IMO it's the best mod at the moment.

Meiou & Taxes definiteily enhances the game but the downside is that it slows down game speed. The lag in Meiou & Taxes is so painful that it's no fun to play.

 

[fred.erick]

Try Meiou; IMO it's the best mod at the moment.

If you only want the unit balance, it's easy to fix it yourself.

Thanks, I'll check it out, and look into the DIY option as well