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Balance based on hard data from the PBEM tournament (continued)

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New priority changes (to be discussed for v1.31):
Wi05
Summon Lesser Elemental costs 110 CP (was 120 CP)

Wa16
Warlord’s Scouts have Night Vision

So12
Wisps have Night Vision

Dr34
Flash Bang (Dreadnought spell) is replaced by Flash Bomb (if unsuccessful, reduces the mp of the targeted unit by 25%) and costs 7 CP (was 8 CP)

Dr35
Weapon Kit costs 7 CP (was 8 CP)

Ai08
Zephir Bird has 40 HP (was 35 HP)

Fi05
Summon Hell Hound costs 160 RP (was 180 RP)

Wt05
Summon Baby Kraken costs 160 RP (was 180 RP)

Wt05
Summon Baby Kraken costs 160 RP (was 180 RP)
 
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Hiliadan said:
New priority changes (to be discussed for v1.31):
Wa16
Warlord’s Scouts have Night Vision
Click to expand...
Seriously? Are vision-impaired species equipped with their engineers' googles?
Dr34
Flash Bang (Dreadnought spell) is replaced by Flash Bomb (if unsuccessful, reduces the mp of the targeted unit by 25%) and costs 7 CP (was 8 CP)
Click to expand...
Then, what about Stun Grenade/Bomb (to feel less anachronistic)?
 
I'm personnally against giving Night Vision to all the Scouts (and scouts) but I'm seriously outvoted. :( Hopefully players in the extended groups discussing balance will reject that but my hopes are low.
Maybe for the name change for Flash Bomb but we'd need more people supporting that. Maybe open a thread on the Steam forum? (though I doubt many will respond)

Confirmed for v1.3:
GC83
Builder's Hall (was Siege Workshop) unlocks the racial defensive building (e.g. Filth Pit for Goblins)


Th11a
Paid Absolution - 70 CP and 70 CP to disjunct (80 CP and 90 CP to disjunct)

Th11h
Beacon of Faith - 120 RP and 30 CP, 30 CP to disjunct (130 RP and 40 CP, 50 CP to disjunct, Fertile Grounds is 120 RP and 40 CP and gives +200 pop instead of +100)
Sanctified Sites - 20 upkeep, 100 CP to disjunct (15, 110 to disjunct)
Armageddon - 100 upkeep, 440 CP to disjunct (80 upkeep, 550 CP to disjunct)


Th11k
Hallowed Domain - 80 CP, 80 CP to disjunct (was 80 CP, 90 to disjunct)


Sh03
Entwined by Shadows: 40 upkeep, 100 CP to cast, 100 CP to disjunct (was 30 upkeep, 150 CP, 150 CP to disjunct)


Sh03a
Seed of Distrust: 10 upkeep (was 5 upkeep)


Sh03b
Embrace Darkness: 10 upkeep, 50 CP to cast, 50 CP to disjunct (was 5 upkeep, 60 CP, 120 CP to disjunct)


AD20a
One with the Elements: 50 CP to disjunct (was 60 CP to disjunct)


AD20c
Sunburst: deals 20 fire damage to cast (was 15 fire damage)


AD20d
Nature's Eyes: 70 CP to cast, 70 CP to disjunct (was 80 CP, 100 CP to disjunct)

AD20f
- Fertile Domain: 40 CP to disjunct (was 50 CP to disjunct)
- Insect Plague: 20 upkeep, 50 CP to cast, 50 CP to disjunct (was 15 upkeep, 60 CP, 50 CP to disjunct)
- Poison Domain: 50 CP to cast, 50 CP to disjunct (100 CP, 110 CP to disjunct)
- Wild Growth: tier III, 220 RP, 40 CP to cast (was tier IV, 350 RP, 60 CP)
- The Wild Hunt: 80 upkeep, 450 CP to disjunct (was 64 upkeep, 500 CP to disjunct)

GC61c
Flying and Floating units get -12 HP/turn (i.e. effectively -6 HP/turn as natural healing is +6 HP/turn) when starting their turn over water. Mariner cancels that malus. Cannot Regenerate units (Machines, Undeads) are excluded.
 
Confirmed for v1.3:
GC85
Siege Workshop costs 130 gold (was 150 gold)


Wa15
- The Draft: 40 upkeep, 100 CP to cast, 100 CP to disjunct (was 30 upkeep, 120 CP, 130 CP to disjunct)
- Conqueror's Feast: 80 upkeep, 120 CP to disjunct (was 40 upkeep, 140 CP to disjunct)
- Hero Slaying: 20 upkeep, 80 CP to cast, 80 CP to disjunct (was 30 upkeep, 100 CP, 110 CP to disjunct)
- Global Assault: 100 upkeep, 440 CP to disjunct (was 80 upkeep, 600 CP, 500 CP to disjunct)

Wa15d
Inspire Loyalty: 30 upkeep, 90 CP to cast, 90 CP to disjunct (was 20 upkeep, 100 CP, 110 CP to disjunct)

Ro21
- Poison Mastery: 50 CP to disjunct (was 60 CP to disjunct)
- Treasure Raiding: 15 upkeep, 50 CP to cast, 50 CP to disjunct (was 10 upkeep, 60 CP, 60 CP to disjunct)
- Corpse Looting: 20 upkeep, 60 CP to disjunct (was 15 upkeep, 70 CP to disjunct)
- Incite Revolt: 60 CP to disjunct (was 80 CP to disjunct)
- Guild of Shadow Thieves: 60 CP to disjunct (was 70 CP to disjunct)
- Network of Scrying Eyes: 120 CP to cast, 120 CP to disjunct (was 150 CP, 170 CP to disjunct)
- Night Wish: tier IV, 350 RP, 25 upkeep, 60 CP to cast, 60 CP to disjunct (was tier V, 700 RP, 20 upkeep, 100 CP, 110 CP to disjunct)
- Age of Deception: 100 upkeep, 450 CP to disjunct (was 80 upkeep, 500 CP to disjunct)

Dr33
Mana Fuel Cells: 20 CP to disjunct, 15 upkeep (was 40 CP to disjunct, 20 upkeep)

Dr33a
- Suppress Nature: 60 CP to cast, 60 CP to disjunct (was 100 CP, 120 CP to disjunct) - I also feel the upkeep is too high (40 mana/turn), but since the overall aim is to increase upkeep, I'm not touching it.
- Dragon Oil: 20 upkeep, 60 CP to cast, 60 CP to disjunct (was 15 upkeep, 120 CP, 120 CP to disjunct) - like Thorn Hedge Walls
- The Great Mobilization: 100 upkeep, 450 CP to disjunct (was 80 upkeep, 500 CP to disjunct)

Dr33b
- Suppress Nature: 60 CP to cast, 60 CP to disjunct (was 100 CP, 120 CP to disjunct) - I also feel the upkeep is too high (40 mana/turn), but since the overall aim is to increase upkeep, I'm not touching it.
- The Great Mobilization: 100 upkeep, 450 CP to disjunct (was 80 upkeep, 500 CP to disjunct)

Dr33c
Dragon Oil: 60 CP to cast, 60 CP to disjunct (was 120 CP, 120 CP to disjunct) - like Thorn Hedge Walls


So11b
Glyphs of Warding: 40 CP to disjunct (was 50 CP to disjunct)

So11c
Dread Omen: 25 upkeep, 60 CP to cast, 60 CP to disjunct (was 40 upkeep, 60 CP, 80 CP to disjunct) - a bit more expensive than Dread Siege which has a similar effect minus the -100 pop

So11d
- Dome of Protection: 30 upkeep, 60 CP to cast, 60 CP to disjunct (was 20 upkeep, 100 CP, 120 CP to disjunct)
- Spell of Return: 80 CP to cast (was 100 CP)
- Age of Magic: 100 upkeep, 450 CP to disjunct (was 80 upkeep, 500 CP to disjunct)

So11e
Lightning Storm: 7 physical and 13 shock damage, 60 CP to cast (was 5 physical, 10 shock, 80 CP)

So11f
Enchanted Walls: 60 CP to cast, 60 CP to disjunct (was 120 CP, 140 CP to disjunct) - like Thorn Hedge Walls


So11g
Summoner's Aura: 25 upkeep, 60 CP to cast, 60 CP to disjunct (was 15 upkeep, 100 CP, 110 CP to disjunct)

Wt04
Freeze Water: 25 CP to cast (was 40 CP)

Wt04a
Drench the Land: 40 CP to cast (was 60 CP)

Wi04
Warp Domain: 90 CP to cast (was 100 CP)

Ea01
Domain of Earth costs 160 RP and 40 CP (was 180 RP, 60CP).

Ai01a
Domain of Winter costs 160 RP and 40 CP (was 180 RP, 60CP).


Ai03a
Artic Empire costs 310 RP and 60 CP (was 350 RP, 80CP)

Fi01a
Domain of the Sun costs 160 RP and 50 CP (was 180 RP, 70CP)

Fi03a
Tropical Empire costs 310 RP and 60 CP (was 350 RP, 80CP).

Cr01a
Domain of Life costs 160 RP and 40 CP (was 180 RP, 60CP).

Cr03a
Temperate Empire costs 310 RP and 60 CP (was 350 RP, 80CP).

De01a
Domain of Corruption costs 160 RP and 40 CP (was 180 RP, 60CP).

De03a
Blight Empire costs 310 RP and 60 CP (was 350 RP, 80CP).



Dropped:

Ai01
Domain of Winter costs 160 RP, 40 CP and 15 mana/turn (was 180 RP, 60CP, 20 mana/turn).

Ai03
Arctic Empire costs 310 RP, 60 CP and 30 mana/turn (was 350 RP, 80CP, 40 mana/turn)

Fi01
Domain of the Sun costs 160 RP, 50 CP and 20 mana/turn (was 180 RP, 70CP, 30 mana/turn).

Fi03
Tropical Empire costs 310 RP, 60 CP and 30 mana/turn (was 350 RP, 80CP, 40 mana/turn).

Cr01
Domain of Life costs 160 RP, 40 CP and 15 mana/turn (was 180 RP, 60CP, 20 mana/turn).

Cr03
Temperate Empire costs 310 RP, 60 CP and 30 mana/turn (was 350 RP, 80CP, 40 mana/turn).

De01
Domain of Corruption costs 160 RP, 40 CP and 15 mana/turn (was 180 RP, 60CP, 20 mana/turn).

De03
Blight Empire costs 310 RP, 60 CP and 30 mana/turn (was 350 RP, 80CP, 40 mana/turn).
 
New priority changes:
Th12
Iron Heart is available at level 3 for Theocrat heroes and Leaders (was level 1)

Th13
Celestial Chamber is required to produce Evangelists (was Theocrate’s Conclave)

Th14
Evangelists do not have Combat Healing any more

GC03a
Touch abilities (Healing, Touch of Faith, Awaken, etc.) give once the tier of the unit using them (was twice the tier)

GC70a
Trolls are removed from the defender sets of Great Farms (in effect replaced by Ogres)

GC86
Miraculous Lizardman Breeches is Epic (was Legendary)
The reasoning is that it is worth 5 hero upgrade points : -3 for 60% Frost Weakness, +3 for Swimming, +2 for Wetland Concealment (?), +2 for Water Concealment (?) and +1 for Wetland Walking. And 5 UP items are Epic (4-5 UP) or Legendary (5-6 UP), see https://steamcommunity.com/app/226840/discussions/0/343788552537901140/?ctp=2#c3393916911752471930

GC87
Scrolls of Knowledge can no longer be found less than 15 hexes from starting location

GC88
Domain of Corruption, Killer Instinct, Summon Dire Penguin can no longer be rewards from Forbidden Sanctum
 
New priority changes:
Th15
Cherub no longer have Night Vision

AD21
Henge is required to produce Shaman (was Arch Druid’s Dolmen)

EDIT:
Confirmed for v1.31:
Dr34
Flash Bang (Dreadnought spell) is replaced by Flash Bomb (if
unsuccessful, reduces the mp of the targeted unit by 25%) and costs 7 CP
(was 8 CP)

Dr35
Weapon Kit costs 7 CP (was 8 CP)





Wi05
Summon Lesser Elemental costs 110 CP (was 120 CP)

Th12
Iron Heart is available at level 3 for Theocrat heroes and Leaders (was level 1)

Th13
Celestial Chamber is required to produce Evangelists (was Theocrate’s Conclave)

Th14
Evangelists do not have Combat Healing any more

GC70a
Trolls are removed from the defender sets of Great Farms (in effect replaced by Ogres)

GC86
Miraculous Lizardman Breeches is Epic (was Legendary)

GC87
Scrolls of Knowledge can no longer be found less than 15 hexes from starting location

GC88
Domain of Corruption, Killer Instinct, Summon Dire Penguin can no longer be rewards from Forbidden Sanctum

Fi05
Summon Hell Hound costs 160 RP (was 180 RP)

Wt05
Summon Baby Kraken costs 160 RP (was 180 RP)
 
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Confirmed for v1.31:
GC03a
Touch abilities (Healing, Touch of Faith, Awaken, etc.) give once the tier of the unit using them (was twice the tier)


For the record, proposal dropped from the core group:
177. Steam Powered gives Floating to Machines
For: El Lobo
Against : Hiliadan, mahimka, marcuspers (+2 MP instead), gladis (or only Golems because Steam Powered early skill), Ezekiel (too powerful)
 
New priority changes:
AD06b
Lesser Befriend Animal and Befriend Animal have strength 9 (was 10) and 11 (was 12) respectively

Dr09
Musketeer costs 75 gold, 15 mana (was 80 gold, 20 mana)

Dropped:
Dr04f
Engineers have Lesser Overload: give +20% damage to target machine or Musketeer until end of combat, but has a 35% chance to loses 10 HP after attacking.

Dr04h
Engineers have Provide Lesser Force Field Device: once per battle, it gives the ability “Lesser Force Field” to a touched unit.
Lesser Force Field: the unit can get 40% resistance from Fire, Lightning and Cold for 3 turns once per battle, for 0 action point


EDIT: for the record, dropped from the core group (not technically feasible with a 1 turn delay):
106. Remove Road is an Avatar skill which starts pre-researched, cost 0 CP and 0 mana and removes 1 hex of road one turn after being cast (like Terraforming). Can only be used in domain.
For: phirpo, gladis, Eskild (but as an ability for Buiders and Engineers), marcuspers
Against :

Also not technically feasible:
101. Wild Affinity (Wild Magic Master) gives +10 CP for Heart structures inside cities and Fortresses’ domain (was only cities’ domain)
For: phirpo, marcuspers, gladis, Eskild
Against :
 
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New priority changes:
GC90
A new Speed setting is introduced: Fast Population: City Growth requirement are 75% normal (but research cost of skills is unaffected)


Dropped:
Ne06
Add a new “Lesser Inflict Ghoul Curse” skill with attack strength 9 and able to ghoul only one unit per battle available at level 9 for 7 points, and make it a prerequisite to choose “Inflict Ghoul Curse” moved to level 13 for 8 points. “Inflict Ghoul Curse” needs the tech “Produce Death Bringer” to be researched in order to be active

Ha14
Halfling Scoundrels cost could be decreased?

EDIT:
Ro09
Rogue heroes and leaders can now choose Assassin’s training: all units in the stack now have Backstab (stackable with other Backstab) – cost 7, available at level 11
 
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The changelog for v1.32 should be ready in 1-2 weeks.

Confirmed for v1.32:
Dr09
Musketeer costs 75 gold, 15 mana (was 80 gold, 20 mana)

GC90
A new Speed setting is introduced: Fast Population: City Growth
requirement are 75% normal (but research cost of skills is unaffected)

GC78
Trolls are no longer given as Dungeon rewards

GC40b
CP upgrade costs for heroes are reduced to 5+5+5+5+6+7+7 = 40 in total to get to 85 CP (was 5+5+7+7+7+9+9 = 49)
Destabilized Mana Core costs 60 CP (was 50 CP)




GC69a
Mana upkeeps of units and spells are modified as follow (+75 % for each tier, rounded, except between T1 and T2):
- 8 mana : T1 units, Summon Wild Animal, Summon Cherub, Summon Grimbeak Crows, Summon Spy Drone, Summon Wisp, Summon Dire Penguin (was 9), Summon Lost Soul (was 10), Summon Zephyr Bird (was 12), Summon Kobold (was 6)
- 12 mana: T2 units, Summon Banshee, Summon Phantasm Warrior, Summon Hell Hound (was 12), Summon Lesser Elemental (was 15), Summon Baby Kraken (was 9)
- 21 mana: T3 units (was 22), Summon Air Elemental, Summon Earth Elemental, Summon Feathered Serpent, Summon Fire Elemental, Summon Frost Elemental, Summon Blight Elemental (was 18), Summon Node Serpent (was 22)
- 38 mana: T4 units, Summon Dread Reaper, Summon Eldritch Horror, Summon Horned God, Summon Arch Angel, Summon Chthonic Guardian, Summon Fallen Angel (was 36), Summon Bone Dragon, Summon Obsidian Dragon, Summon Phoenix (was 32)
- 13 mana: Summon Eldritch Animal (was 12; 9/10 T2 and 1/10 T3)
- 15 mana: Summon Fantastic Creature (was 16; 4/6 T2 and 2/6 T3)
- 15 mana: Summon Water Nymph (was 9; 50% T2, 50% T3 - should be 17 but reduced to 15)
- 25 mana: Summon Gargantuan Animal (was 28; 7/9 T3 and 2/9 T4)

Dr10
-20 Research cost for Musketeer and -20 for Golem and +40 for Cannons

Ne23
Dark Ritual spawns 2 Cadavers and costs 40 CP (was 3 Cadavers and 40 CP)
 
Confirmed for v1.32:
Ne14
Devour Corpse heals 20 HP (was 25 HP)


GC60
Battering Ram is T1 and has 4 gold upkeep, medals give it +2 HP (was T2, 8 upkeep, +4 HP)

Dropped:
Th09
Theocrat leaders and heroes can choose Convert at level 13 (was 9) for 7 points

Listed as "To be dropped?":
Wa13
Death March has no effect on heroes and leaders
 
I think it will be good idea to move Exalted's resurgence to elite rank. I know it's a little fragile unit with only 55 HP but it's very universal because of flying and can do a lot of damage. But resurgence from the start makes mistakes painless you simply don't loose units at all.

Succubs can be nerfed a little. Their main functions are casting curse and seducing so a pair of them can gather a small army in several combats. But they're very close in melee damage to dedicated melee units they have elemental resistances. They don't have direct damage increasing features like chivalry's charge but flying gives them a lot of mobility and curse significally reduces enemy's Def and Res.

Shadow Stalkers. They're Mary Sue among all units. They move over any surface they move through the walls, they have 60% Phys resist which gives them more effective HP against Phys. attacks than any T4 unit has. And 2 of 5 elemental attack do no damage to them. They're are not affected by stun. And they have 21 damage in 2 channels combined more than any T3 unit. In fact they're not T3 but T3.5 unit and they're the best choice in most of situations (may be exceptions like a lot of flame tanks but usually when Stalkers can't do a lot of damage the enemy can't do a lot of damage to them too). Stalkers are vulnerable to Exsorcism and have no racial happines bonuses but these are not so big disadvantages comparing to brutal power they have.

Of course Shadow Stalkers are expensive 200 gold and 40 mana. BUT The price usually important not in how it big or small but how many turns it'l take to build the unit. After that it will consume a lot of gold for upkeep. And it's not so hard to reach 120 prod points and produce Stalkers in 2 turns especially if there's Magma Forge, Flowrock Quarry and etc. But it's hard to reach 170 prod points and produce racial T3 units in 1 turn. So in terms of production speed they're practically equal to other T3 units. And they're acessible from the same 100 gold 100 mana T2 class structure while buildable in cities T4 units require additional 200 gold 300 mana structure.

Since Rogue has no T4 units Stalkers must compete with other classes' T4 units but I think it's Res should be nerfed from 11 to 10 which means -2 Res in defence mode. And the price increased beyond 256 resources so the cities without additional prod structure in their domain couldn't spam them in 2 turns like any other T3 unit.

What looks very strange for me is very expensive racial T3 building which should make T3 units no so fast accessible as it was in AoW2 but class T2 structure which give T3 class units cost only 200 resources. Where's logic? And don't forget then in generated-maps RMG alwayes gives to the player T1 class buildng in the starting settlement which makes acces to class T3-units much easier.

Racial government. There're lot of strange things like a discount for making items in Dwarf cities. Seriously? Item forge doesn't cost it's price. Or additional ability for archers in Elven RG4M. Any archer becomes to weak by then.

But Tigran RG4E Temples give 200 happines and +1 Rank to new units. The key word is racial why this thing affects machines, elementals, non-racial monsters (Why Sphinx is not monster (s)he's not even humanoid but OK). The same about Draconians RG4E.
 
I don't kow if someone uses Item Forge in PBEM. Even in SP, I'd better have a bonus to crossbowmen, like an additional ranged attack (why not the short range powerful shot a mod gives them?).

About sphinges, I believe that they can be seen as the mystic rulers lesser Tigrans follow. Tigrans, as well as Draconians, were not all humanoids back to AoW2. It' s only the 3D skelettons that forced devs to use humanoid (or equine) models.
 
I use my own small mod with Item Forge price as 75g 75m only +5 science bonus and build only healing items. Otherwise better build a couple of additional units .

Beholder is not humanoid just like snakes and etc I guess there're standart animation libraries for any creature type.
 
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