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Balance based on hard data from the PBEM tournament (continued)

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Hiliadan

Hiliadan

Major
Jun 17, 2018
614
6
This thread is a continuation of this post on the old Triumph forum: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/balance-based-on-hard-data-from-the-pbem-tournament-continued/

The objective of this thread is to discuss balance changes to be implemented in the PBEM & SP balance mod, based as much as possible on data on how classes and races fare on the Battlefield.com website, i.e. the best source of data available on balance.

You can find data from the (completed) 2015 PBEM Duel Tournament in 3 tables here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...6pp0xJ7Kx8/pubhtml?gid=2052154804&single=true
– first table list the choices of class / race
– second table list the victories
– third table is the win ratio (division of the figures in the second table by those in the first table)

Results from the 2017 PBEM Duel Tournament can similarly be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...jKSs8fiOI4/pubhtml?gid=1201203921&single=true
up to April 2018 (so the final rounds are not included).
 
New priority changes:

GC57
Shrine to the Skull Lord and Well of Souls are no longer "Treasure site" for the sake of Sanctified Sites, Animistic Knowledge and Magical Structures strategic spells (were Visit Structures but giving bonuses through these spells)


Dr28
Engineers do 5 melee damage and 7/8 physical/fire Fire Blunderbuss damage and costs 65 gold and 10 mana (was 70 gold and 10 mana)

Dr29
The extra cost due to extra abilities for Engineers is now 5 gold for Projectile Resistance for Dwarves (was 11), 5 gold for Sprint for Tigrans (was 10), 5 gold for Inflict Immolation for Draconians (was 10).

Dr30
Produce Engineer is Tier II and costs 140 RP, Produce Musketeer is Tier I and costs 60 RP (was the opposite).
Engineers are T2, have 45 HP, 11 defense, 9 resistance, costs 80 gold, 10 mana (was T1, 40 HP, 10 def, 8 res, 70 gold and 10 mana).
Musketeers are T1, have 36 HP, 10 defense, 8 resistance, costs 65 gold and 5 mana (was T2, 45 HP, 11 defense, 9 resistance, costs 80 gold and 10 mana).
 
New priority changes:



GC25a
Summon Earth Elemental cannot be obtained as a reward in Sunken Cities any more


GC58
Floating does not give Cave Crawling any more (need 4 MP to move on Subterranean climate).

GC59
Pillar of the Stylite gives an additional +1 spirit damage against Flying units.Solar Spire gives +1 fire melee damage against Flying units.


GC60
Battering Ram is T1 and has 4 gold upkeep, medals give it +2 HP (was T2, 8 upkeep, +4 HP)
 
New priority changes:
Ne06i
Necromancer heroes and leaders can choose Ghouling Strike at level 11 (was 9) for 8 points (was 7).

GC11b
Mind-controlled units cost more in upkeep:+50% gold / turn (was +25%)

GC11c
Independent units with Regrowth get "Greedy": The unit costs +25% upkeep.

GC61
Swimming now uses 4 MP/hex on the strategic map. Sea Creatures get Natural Swimming and still uses 3 MP/hex. Flying and Floating units get a "Flying over water" penalty of -1 defense, -1 resistance when flying over water. Mariner cancels that malus.
Sea Creatures do not take attack of opportunity when moving near non-Sea Creature units (like Flyers near walking units).

GC62
Items can now be found in sites corresponding to their rarity level or the level just above:
- Mythical sites: Mythical + Legendary
- Legendary sites: Legendary + Epic
- Epic sites: Epic + Strong
- Strong sites (see I1): Strong + Common
- Common sites (see I1): Common

GC63
Replenishing Bucket of Monkey Filth (use item, throw filth) is Strong (was Epic)

GC64
Silver Aegis Ring(jewel, 40% physical protection) is Mythical (was Legendary)

GC65
Dire Bear (mount +5 HP, devastating charge, bloodthirsty, inflict bleeding wounds) is Epic (was Legendary)

GC66
Accursed Helm of the Tower : legendary -> mythical | head dragon slayer, giant slayer, 20% blight weakness, +2 def, +1 res, +1 vision range
Arm Cuff of the Spirit Slayer : strong -> common | jewel +1 physical melee str, elemental slayer
Betrayer's Gift : mythical -> legendary | weapon backstab(2x), +1 physical melee str
Blessed Totem of Health : epic -> strong | usable +5hp, +12 hp recovery
Bone Wyvern : legendary -> mythical | mount flying, inflict brain rot
Boots of the Shocking Snake Slayer : epic -> legendary | leg 40% shock protection, +2 def
Buckler of the King's Guard : strong -> epic | shield shield, +1 def, +1 res
Choker of the Great Matriarch : legendary -> mythical | jewel 40% fire protection, 40% blight protection, +1 res, vision range upgrade
Cult of Storms Insignia : epic -> legendary | jewel 80% shock protection, cave concealment, +1 res
Darkbringer Gemstone : strong -> common | jewel urban concealment
Dragor's Swordcatcher : legendary -> epic | shield shield, +2 def
Eternal Fire Cape : mythical -> legendary | torso fire aura, +1 def
Fire Wyvern : legendary -> mythical | mount 40% fire protection, flying
Flametongue Sword : mythical -> legendary | weapon overwhelm, +3 fire melee str
Friendly Beggar's Shoes : strong -> epic | leg bringer of goodwill
Frost Wyvern : legendary -> mythical | mount 40% frost protection, flying
Grar's Plate Greaves : legendary -> mythical | leg +4 def
Halfling Trick Bauble : legendary -> epic | jewel invisibility
Horned Helmet of the Verbose Dragonslayer : epic -> strong | head dragon slayer, +2 def
Jack's Gift : common -> strong | jewel +10 hp
Jewel of Forgotten Revival : strong -> common | jewel +12 hp recovery
Lizard on a Stick : epic -> strong | usable poison spit
Locket of Lost Love : common -> strong | jewel strong will
Mana Powered Heavy Drill : epic -> strong | usable tunneling
Mesmerizing Necklace : common -> strong | jewel inflict dazzled
Mundane Traveler's Cloak of Divine Joy : strong -> legendary | torso 40% fire 40 frost 40 shock protection
Old Orcish Tower Shield : epic -> strong | shield projectile resist, shield
Pendant of the Lightworker : epic -> legendary | jewel true sight, +1 res, vision range upgrade
Pyromancer's Tinderbox : epic -> strong | usable immolating touch
Rod of Lightning Charge : legendary -> common | usable shocking bolts
Rusty Disk of Defense : epic -> strong | shield shield, +1 def
Serious Shield of Austerity : legendary -> epic | shield +1 def, +1 res
Shimmering Orb of Aldor : legendary -> epic | jewel +2 res
Smooth Shield of the Wayward Clans : legendary -> epic | shield shield, +2 def
Spear of the Jungle Dweller : strong -> epic | weapon inflict severely poisoned, +1 physical melee strength, +1 blight melee strength
Trinket of the Moongate : legendary -> epic | jewel phase
Wand of the Naga Mage : legendary -> epic | usable naga fire
Armor of Divine Regeneration : epic -> mythical | torso regrowth
Box of Blades : strong -> common | usable throw blades
Cape of Rot : mythical -> legendary | torso free movement, path of decay
Deathbringer's Medallion : legendary -> epic | jewel shadow step
Fallen Gurock's Warpants : strong -> common | leg +2 def, 20% blight weakness
Forged Frostling Shield : common -> strong | shield +1 def, 20% frost protection
Frost Witch Staff : legendary -> mythical | weapon castigate, grant frozen flame, 60% fire protection, 60% frost protection
Helmet of Primal Instinct : epic -> common | head predator
Ice Scaper Gloves : common -> strong | usable throw ice ball
Reaper's Hood : legendary -> epic | head gas breath
Ritual Knife of the Unholy Gutter : epic -> strong | weapon devour corpse
Shield of the Frosted Ark Raider : epic -> legendary | shield +2 def, 80% frost protection
Shield of the Unfazed Mercenary : strong -> common | shield shield
Sickle : strong -> common | weapon bloodthirsty
Slacks of Sorcery : legendary -> strong | leg +1 resistance, 20% shock protection
Spear of Justice : strong -> epic | weapon +1 physical melee str, first strike, polearm
Sun Spear : common -> strong | usable throw sun spear
Tigran Sandals of Speed : common -> legendary | leg +4 MP

GC67
Stick of the Frost Witch (usable, frost bolts) is Strong (was Legendary)
Wand of Fiery Doom (usable, fire bolts) is Strong (was Legendary)

Ro19
Produce Bards is tier III and costs 200 RP (was tier II and cost 120 RP).
Produce Assassins is tier II and costs 120 RP (was tier III and cost 200 RP).

AD18
Archdruid heroes can choose Call Ancestral Spirits at level 7 (was 5).
Call Ancestral Spirits costs 26 CP and mana (was 20).

Wt03
Rot gives Weakened to Machine and Undead it affects (was Deteriorated in the balance mod and Weakened in vanilla).
 
Confirmed for v1.27:
GC62
Items can now be found in sites corresponding to their rarity level or the level just above:
- Mythical sites: Mythical + Legendary
- Legendary sites: Legendary + Epic
- Epic sites: Epic + Strong
- Strong sites (see I1): Strong + Common
- Common sites (see I1): Common


GC63
Replenishing Bucket of Monkey Filth (use item, throw filth) is Strong (was Epic)


GC64
Silver Aegis Ring(jewel, 40% physical protection) is Mythical (was Legendary)

GC65
Dire Bear (mount +5 HP, devastating charge, bloodthirsty, inflict bleeding wounds) is Epic (was Legendary)

GC66
Accursed Helm of the Tower : legendary -> mythical | head dragon slayer, giant slayer, 20% blight weakness, +2 def, +1 res, +1 vision range
Arm Cuff of the Spirit Slayer : strong -> common | jewel +1 physical melee str, elemental slayer
Betrayer's Gift : mythical -> legendary | weapon backstab(2x), +1 physical melee str
Blessed Totem of Health : epic -> strong | usable +5hp, +12 hp recovery
Bone Wyvern : legendary -> mythical | mount flying, inflict brain rot
Boots of the Shocking Snake Slayer : epic -> legendary | leg 40% shock protection, +2 def
Buckler of the King's Guard : strong -> epic | shield shield, +1 def, +1 res
Choker of the Great Matriarch : legendary -> mythical | jewel 40% fire protection, 40% blight protection, +1 res, vision range upgrade
Cult of Storms Insignia : epic -> legendary | jewel 80% shock protection, cave concealment, +1 res
Darkbringer Gemstone : strong -> common | jewel urban concealment
Dragor's Swordcatcher : legendary -> epic | shield shield, +2 def
Eternal Fire Cape : mythical -> legendary | torso fire aura, +1 def
Fire Wyvern : legendary -> mythical | mount 40% fire protection, flying
Flametongue Sword : mythical -> legendary | weapon overwhelm, +3 fire melee str
Friendly Beggar's Shoes : strong -> epic | leg bringer of goodwill
Frost Wyvern : legendary -> mythical | mount 40% frost protection, flying
Grar's Plate Greaves : legendary -> mythical | leg +4 def
Halfling Trick Bauble : legendary -> epic | jewel invisibility
Horned Helmet of the Verbose Dragonslayer : epic -> strong | head dragon slayer, +2 def
Jack's Gift : common -> strong | jewel +10 hp
Jewel of Forgotten Revival : strong -> common | jewel +12 hp recovery
Lizard on a Stick : epic -> strong | usable poison spit
Locket of Lost Love : common -> strong | jewel strong will
Mana Powered Heavy Drill : epic -> strong | usable tunneling
Mesmerizing Necklace : common -> strong | jewel inflict dazzled
Mundane Traveler's Cloak of Divine Joy : strong -> legendary | torso 40% fire 40 frost 40 shock protection
Old Orcish Tower Shield : epic -> strong | shield projectile resist, shield
Pendant of the Lightworker : epic -> legendary | jewel true sight, +1 res, vision range upgrade
Pyromancer's Tinderbox : epic -> strong | usable immolating touch
Rod of Lightning Charge : legendary -> common | usable shocking bolts
Rusty Disk of Defense : epic -> strong | shield shield, +1 def
Serious Shield of Austerity : legendary -> epic | shield +1 def, +1 res
Shimmering Orb of Aldor : legendary -> epic | jewel +2 res
Smooth Shield of the Wayward Clans : legendary -> epic | shield shield, +2 def
Spear of the Jungle Dweller : strong -> epic | weapon inflict severely poisoned, +1 physical melee strength, +1 blight melee strength
Trinket of the Moongate : legendary -> epic | jewel phase
Wand of the Naga Mage : legendary -> epic | usable naga fire
Armor of Divine Regeneration : epic -> mythical | torso regrowth
Box of Blades : strong -> common | usable throw blades
Cape of Rot : mythical -> legendary | torso free movement, path of decay
Deathbringer's Medallion : legendary -> epic | jewel shadow step
Fallen Gurock's Warpants : strong -> common | leg +2 def, 20% blight weakness
Forged Frostling Shield : common -> strong | shield +1 def, 20% frost protection
Frost Witch Staff : legendary -> mythical | weapon castigate, grant frozen flame, 60% fire protection, 60% frost protection
Helmet of Primal Instinct : epic -> common | head predator
Ice Scaper Gloves : common -> strong | usable throw ice ball
Reaper's Hood : legendary -> epic | head gas breath
Ritual Knife of the Unholy Gutter : epic -> strong | weapon devour corpse
Shield of the Frosted Ark Raider : epic -> legendary | shield +2 def, 80% frost protection
Shield of the Unfazed Mercenary : strong -> common | shield shield
Sickle : strong -> common | weapon bloodthirsty
Slacks of Sorcery : legendary -> strong | leg +1 resistance, 20% shock protection
Spear of Justice : strong -> epic | weapon +1 physical melee str, first strike, polearm
Sun Spear : common -> strong | usable throw sun spear
Tigran Sandals of Speed : common -> legendary | leg +4 MP

GC67
Stick of the Frost Witch (usable, frost bolts) is Strong (was Legendary)
Wand of Fiery Doom (usable, fire bolts) is Strong (was Legendary)
 
New priority changes:
Th09b
Theocrat leaders and heroes can choose Lesser Convert at level 11 (was 9) for 8 points (was 7).

Ro14b
Rogue heroes and leaders can choose Lesser Charm at level 9 (was 7) for 6 points (was 5).

Confirmed for v1.27:
GC25a
Summon Earth Elemental cannot be obtained as a reward in Sunken Cities any more

GC57
Shrine to the Skull Lord and Well of Souls are no longer "Treasure site" for the sake of Sanctified Sites, Animistic Knowledge and Magical Structures strategic spells (were Visit Structures but giving bonuses through these spells)

GC58
Floating does not give Cave Crawling any more (need 4 MP to move on Subterranean climate).

Dr28
Engineers have 5 melee damage and Fire Blunderbuss for 7/8 physical/fire damage and cost 65 gold and 10 mana (was 6 melee damage, 8/8 ranged damage and 70 gold and 10 mana)

Dr29
The extra cost due to extra abilities for Engineers is now 5 gold for Projectile Resistance for Dwarves (was 11), 5 gold for Sprint for Tigrans (was 10), 5 gold for Inflict Immolation for Draconians (was 10).
 
I did some cleaning in the table of proposed changes.

New priority changes:
GC41i
First Strike costs 4 UP (was 3)


GC41j
Shadow Step costs 4 UP for Rogue (was 5) and Necromancer (was 2)

GC43a
Free Movement costs 3 upgrade points (UP) (was 2)

GC43b
Floating costs 5 UP (was 4)


GC43c
Swimming costs 4 UP (was 3)

GC45a
Inflict Despair is available at level 5 (was 1)

GC60a
Battering Ram has Volunteer

GC61a
Swimming now uses 4 MP/hex on the strategic map. Sea Creatures get Natural Swimming and still uses 3 MP/hex.
Sea Creatures do not take attack of opportunity when moving near other units (like Flyers near walking units).
GC61b
Flying and Floating units get a "Flying over water" penalty of -1 defense, -1 resistance when flying over water. Mariner cancels that malus.

AD18a
Archdruid heroes can choose Call Ancestral Spirits at level 7 (was 5).

AD18b
Call Ancestral Spirits costs 26 CP and mana (was 20).

Ro18a
Corrupted Killers give Evolve into Lesser Shadow Stalker and +50% for killing blows (was Evolve and +50% for all actions, including killing blows)

Ai06c
Air Master gets Wind Path instead of Heavy Winds (-2 vision range to all enemy Flying units and no tactical flying, 800 RP and 150 CP, tier V, disjunction cost 170 CP and upkeep 60 mana/turn). All units in target friendly army gain Floating until end of turn. It costs 700 RP, 50 CP and is tier V. Wind Path causes units getting Floating to become Exhausted for 3 turns (including the turn when it is cast). Exhausted units cannot receive extra movement from Wind Path or Death March any more.


Priority changes moved to On hold:
GC28
Sphynx Temple's Greater Immolation affects 2 enemy units every round (was 1)

GC29
Hall of the Forefather's battle enchantment is Vengeful Totem: enemy units are affected by Glacial Totem and one enemy unit is hit by Vengeful Frost every turn

GC30
Ziggurath's battle enchantment is Filth Pith

GC31
Lost City's battle enchantment is Bell Tower

GC32
Castle of the Lich King's Batte Enchantment is Lich King's Undying Army: all defenders have Undying and enemy units get 20% Spirit Weakness.


Dropped:
GC41d
First Strike costs 4 UP (was 3)
Shadow Step costs 4 UP for Rogue (was 5) and Necromancer (was 2)

GC43
Free Movement costs 3 upgrade points (UP) (was 2)
Floating costs 5 UP (was 4)
Swimming costs 4 UP (was 3)

GC61
Swimming now uses 4 MP/hex on the strategic map. Sea Creatures get Natural Swimming and still uses 3 MP/hex. Flying and Floating units get a "Flying over water" penalty of -1 defense, -1 resistance when flying over water. Mariner cancels that malus.
Sea Creatures do not take attack of opportunity when moving near non-Sea Creature units (like Flyers near walking units).

AD18
Archdruid heroes can choose Call Ancestral Spirits at level 7 (was 5).
Call Ancestral Spirits costs 26 CP and mana (was 20).

Ro18
Corrupted Killers give Evolve into Lesser Shadow Stalker and +1 ranged strength to Scoundrels (was Evolve and Quick Learner)
 
Confirmed for v1.27:
GC11c
Independent Trolls, Naga Slither and Naga Guardian units with Regrowth get "Greedy": The unit costs +25% upkeep.

Wt03
Rot gives Weakened to Machine and Undead it affects (was Deteriorated in the balance mod and Weakened in vanilla).

Dropped:
Ne12
Necromancer starts with a random hero (was starts with a Necromancer hero)


Moved from "To be dropped?" to Priority changes again:
AD08a
Orc Hunters cost 75 gold (was 80) and have Sprint

Dr10a
-40 Research cost for Musketeer and +40 for Cannons
 
New priority changes:
GC68
The list of the spells that can be pre-researched automatically when the game starts is:
Global
* Arch druid: One with the elements, Fertile domain.
* Dreadnought: Mana fuel cells.
* Rogue: Iron grip, Treasure raiding.
* Sorcerer: Glyph of warding, Dread omen.
* Necromancer: Animate ruins, Undead plague.
* Theocrat: Beacon of faith, Paid absolution.
* Warlord: Authority of the sword, Death march.
o Tactical
* Arch druid: Root spears
* Dreadnought: Flash bang
* Rogue: Poison blades
* Sorcerer: Magic fist
* Necromancer: Death ray
* Theocrat: Smite
* Warlord: Last stand, Lion's courage
* Air: Suffocate
* Creation: Bless
* Destruction: Killer instinct
* Earth: Stoning
* Fire: Fireball
* Water: Vengeful frost
* Wild magic: Warp equipment

AD19
Twisting Roots cannot start researched

Ar04
Obelisk of Undeath do not affect allied units with Curse (was: allied units are also Curse if valid targets)



For the record...

Proposals from the core group rejected:
17.e2) "Basic Lava Walking" tech - it costs 80 RP and gives 17.c; "Medium Lava Walking" tech - it costs 250 RP and gives 17.a or 17.b; "High (or Advanced) Lava Walking" tech - it costs 650-800 RP and gives Lava Walking for all walking units without malus even if the unit hasn't 100% of fire protection (or at least 60-80% of fire protection)

d.12/ Succubi get “Mystified Seduction” which is stronger and has wider target audience – machines could be on the list as being vulnerable through their crews, and undead

22. Transform node no longer requires the target node to be located inside the caster's domain.

26. Move the T4 rewards (the Dragons) from the Forbidden Sanctum to the Wizard Tower Ruins

29. Move the Elemental and Dragon spells from the Forbidden Sanctum to the Sunken City and Wizard Tower Ruins
 
New priority change:
GC26c
Forbidden Sanctum’s extra reward multiplier is 0.07 (was 0.25) so that you can get maximum 200-300 mana in addition to CP and free skill



Dropped:
Ne13a
Raise Corpse reanimate cadavers with 50% HP (was 75%)


Wa09
Death March causes units getting extra movement to become Tired until the end of the (strategic) turn.
Tired units get -50% movement in tactical combat

For the record...
Proposals from the core group rejected:
d.11/ Succubi get another version of Throw curse that can never miss (unless the target is immune)
 
It seems I never wrote a description of how the balance mod is currently fed with new suggestions outside ephemeral chats (though I'm surprised because I remember writing at least some descriptions but I can't find them back). So here we go:

First, it is important to restate the objective: "The PBEM & Single player balance mod aims to balance the game for PBEM and single play, that is to say to make it possible for any combination of class/race/specialisations chosen to win a match if good strategic and tactical choices are made during the match." This is not (yet) stated in its description on the Steam Workshop but the mod seeks to provide an improved user experience and to be the new normal for AoW3, which should be installed by all players.
It does NOT seek to balance only for PBEM and it does NOT seek to balance only for tournament settings. In particular, it balances the game for all map sizes.

How new proposals are suggested and validated:
  • entirely new topics requiring extensive brainstorming (e.g. how to reclassify items) are discussed on the Steam and Paradox forum, see index of balance topics. Very preliminary discussions are led on the chat on the BF.
  • limited (in terms of complexity and possibly impact) changes can be directly discussed without extensive brainstorming on the forum.
  • as a HUGE number of proposals already exist and the aim is to keep as manageable as possible for anyone to provide opinions on existing proposals, a VERY CONSEQUENT filtering is required. It is not possible to assess all the proposals suggested by everyone. Consequently, proposals are assessed following these steps:
  1. the core group, comprised of 5 competitive players with diverse opinions (as of January 2019: Hiliadan, Marcuspers, rickyroo222, El Lobo and phirpo), can suggest new proposals and assess proposals who got at least 2 persons supporting them on brainstorm topic on the forum (see the first bullet point above). These discussions are conducted by private messages (PM) on the Battlefield (BF) community website. Proposals who get a net +3 (so 5 vs 0 or 4 vs 1, for vs against) become "Priority changes" and are listed in the table of proposed changes.
  2. the extended group #1, comprised of 5 competitive players as of January 2019, but whose size varies, then provides feedback on the priority changes by PM on the BF. Proposals which maintain a net +3 in favour move on to the next stage.
  3. the extended group #2, comprised of about 10 players as of January 2019, provides an additional feedback by PM on the BF. Proposals with a net +5 in favour are considered for implementation.
  4. after a period of at least 2 weeks during which the proposals are made public and the intention to include them in the balance mod is announced on the PBEM Tournament Player Pool, the proposals can be confirmed for integration in the balance mod.

A very significant time of translation into technical specifications, as the implementation of some proposals is not obvious, and of testing s is necessary.

New versions of the balance mod are released every 3 to 4 months with the constraint that updates cannot be released without at least 1 month of testing on the beta branch and that new versions can't be released in the middle of a tournament round. So the rhythm of tournament rounds dictate the speed of release (basically releases coincide with the end of rounds).


Why not use Discord to discuss balance?
There are many reasons.
  1. The constraint is not the communication medium. What slows down the balance mod is that people take time to give opinion and that releases can happen only after extensive testing + between tournament rounds as explained above. Discord does not reduce the time needed to read proposals and formulate opinions on them. That's actually the opposite for two reasons: 1/ there is a lot of bullshit being said on AoW3's Discord channel and reading it waste time, 2/ making it possible for anyone to post a proposal as is the case on Discord means the filtering process described above is neutered and people currently in the extended group #2 have to give opinions on all the proposals that are suggested with the current system + many more randomly suggested by anyone.
  2. A poll function is not needed. There is already a table summarizing all the opinions. And discussing balance is not simply about saying for or against. Many people provides detailed opinions which help refine proposals. The Discord poll function does not capture that even though it is essential.
  3. Getting feedback on balance requires customized follow up. Most of the feedback I collect for balance is collected because I follow up through many means (PM, chat messages, Steam...) with people and take into account their own constraints and personalities. Again, the issue is not the communication medium. Having a new chat interface won't change anything.
  4. The poll on balance on Discord are actually not successful anyway: the maximum number of votes is about 10 (I saw one with 16). For the balance mod, we have 20+ voters on the most contested proposals.
  5. We don't need new proposals. I already covered that above but we don't need what I see on the live MP polls on Discord: many new proposals. As I said, we have already 111 Word pages worth of proposals. We need filtering and refinements of proposals, and we need in-depth discussions and brainstorming. Multi-level filtering and discussions on forum meet these needs, not polls on Discord.
  6. There is already 1 one-stop site for the PBEM community of AoW3, that's the BF. There is no need to split the community by using Discord.
 
New priority changes:
GC50c
Enemy heroes cannot be targetted by True Resurrect.

GC69
Mana upkeeps of units and spells are modified as follow (+75 % for each tier, rounded):
- 7 mana : T1 units, Summon Wild Animal, Summon Cherub, Summon Grimbeak Crows, Summon Spy Drone, Summon Wisp, Summon Dire Penguin (was 9), Summon Lost Soul (was 10), Summon Zephyr Bird (was 12), Summon Kobold (was 6)
- 12 mana: T2 units, Summon Banshee, Summon Phantasm Warrior, Summon Hell Hound (was 12), Summon Lesser Elemental (was 15), Summon Baby Kraken (was 9)
- 21 mana: T3 units (was 22), Summon Air Elemental, Summon Earth Elemental, Summon Feathered Serpent, Summon Fire Elemental, Summon Frost Elemental, Summon Blight Elemental (was 18), Summon Node Serpent (was 22)
- 38 mana: T4 units, Summon Dread Reaper, Summon Eldritch Horror, Summon Horned God, Summon Arch Angel, Summon Chthonic Guardian, Summon Fallen Angel (was 36), Summon Bone Dragon, Summon Obsidian Dragon, Summon Phoenix (was 32)
- 9 mana: Summon Water Nymph (was 9; 50% T2, 50% T3)
- 13 mana: Summon Eldritch Animal (was 12; 9/10 T2 and 1/10 T3)
- 15 mana: Summon Fantastic Creature (was 16; 4/6 T2 and 2/6 T3)
- 25 mana: Summon Gargantuan Animal (was 28; 7/9 T3 and 2/9 T4)


Ro20
Incite Revolt gives -250 Undead Population / turn to Ghoul cities (was one-off -600 when the spell is cast)

GC11d
Warbreeds get Greedy (+25% upkeep). Gladiator Pit gives Tamed (-25% upkeep) to Warbreed.

GC70
Warbreeds are replaced by Ogres on Destruction Mana Node. Trolls are replaced by Ogres on Ancient Ruins.

Dr24a
Spy Drones have Night Vision.

GC36a
Planetary Alignment gives +100 % RP income for 4 turns (was complete the current research instantly)

Ne05k
Lesser Reanimate Undead and Reanimate Undead brings back to life the corpse of target valid unit (was give Undying to target valid unit)

GC71
Immolating Touch costs no action point and has a 2 turn cooldown (was takes all remaining AP and once per battle)

GC72
Cure Disease costs no action point and has a 1 turn cooldown (so can be used only once per turn) (was takes all remaining AP)

Dropped:
GC36
The Cosmic Event Planetary Alignment gives 300 RP (was complete the current research instantly)

For information, rejected by the core group:
87. Spy Drones have Cave Crawling.
For: Hiliadan
Against : rickyroo222, marcuspers (prefer Night Vision, and not both), El Lobo, phirpo
 
Confirmed for v1.28:
GC45a
Inflict Despair is available at level 5 (was 1)

Ha21a
Halfling economic RG1: Store House costs 45 less to build (was Store House costs 35 less to build)

AD18a
Archdruid heroes can choose Call Ancestral Spirits at level 7 (was 5).
 
Last edited:
New priority changes:
GC73
Liberated from Raiders (+400 happiness for cities liberated from roamers) last 10 turns (was 15 turns)

GC74
Oyster Reef is affected by Sanctified Sites, Animistic Knowledge and Magical Structures

Dr31
Summon Spy Drone costs 60 RP (was 80 RP)

GC75
Harbours give Maintenance (+5 HP/strategic turn) to friendly Boats in the city’s domain

Wi03
Summon Lesser Elemental is tier 3 skill (was tier 4)
 
Last edited:
Confirmed for v1.28:
GC50c
Enemy heroes cannot be targetted by True Resurrect.

Ro20
Incite Revolt gives -250 Undead Population / turn to Ghoul cities (was one-off -600 when the spell is cast)

GC11d
Warbreeds get Greedy (+25% upkeep). Gladiator Pit gives Tamed (-25% upkeep) to Warbreed.

Dr24a
Spy Drones have Night Vision.

GC36a
Planetary Alignment gives +100 % RP income for 4 turns (was complete the current research instantly)

GC72
Cure Disease costs no action point and has a 1 turn cooldown (so can be used only once per turn) (was takes all remaining AP)

GC70
Warbreeds are replaced by Ogres on Destruction Mana Node. Trolls are replaced by Ogres on Ancient Ruins.

Dr27
Engineers have Tunneling and can Build Road for 4 gold/hex and Bridges for 48 gold (was 5 gold/hex and 60 gold).

GC41j
Shadow Step costs 4 UP for Rogue (was 5) and Necromancer (was 2)
 
Confirmed for v1.28:
Dr22
Dreadnought heroes can choose Force Field Generator Gear for 7 points at level 13: Units led by this hero get Force Field Generator: self-buff ability that can be used Once per battle for no action point and gives 40% fire, 40% frost and 40% shock protection for 5 turns.

Dr25
Great Blacksmith increases sales at your forges: Magma Forge generates +5 gold/turn (in addition to existing -10% gold for Armored)

Fi04a
Tropical Empire gives Inflict Scorched Heat to allied units in your domain (was Inflict Immolation)

Ar04
Obelisk of Undeath do not affect allied units with Curse (was: allied units are also Curse if valid targets)

GC73
Liberated from Raiders (+400 happiness for cities liberated from roamers) last 10 turns (was 15 turns)

GC74
Oyster Reef is affected by Sanctified Sites, Animistic Knowledge and Magical Structures

Dr31
Summon Spy Drone costs 60 RP (was 80 RP)

GC75
Harbours give Maintenance (+5 HP/strategic turn) to friendly Boats in the city’s domain

Wi03
Summon Lesser Elemental is tier 3 skill (was tier 4)

GC19a
Bards get Mind Control Immunity
 
Hiliadan said:
Confirmed for v1.28:
GC75
Harbours give Maintenance (+5 HP/strategic turn) to friendly Boats in the city’s domain
Click to expand...
I respectfully disagree, but I'm not a PBEM player, nor an expert at naval battles.

If I'm not wrong, that would make full stacks of ships regenerating 30 HP/turn. I've thought you wanted to nerf down all non-sea creatures over sea a little (not only the swimmers/fliers/floaters).

I'd rather personally have Harbour grant special benefits to the one boat stack standing in its hex (aka "being in harbour"). I believe a mod made Harbour heal in-harbour boats. But if possible, I'd have them extending Masters' Guild, and any other machine repairing power that benefit land units in garrison, to in-harbour boats.
Thus, more possible healing, but only for the stack in harbour.

If you want to benefit from regeneration out of a harbour, you'd need to embark Engineers or advanced Builders.

If the problem is about the roamers, give them a special ability instead (or only for roaming Galleons?). Or else, if possible, give the spawning sites the same power you plan to give Harbours (healing friendly boats (i.e. independent boats) up to a few hexes away).
 
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