Badboy value

[unmerged(598)]

Didn't go for the Incas, those Dutch were up to no good, and this was the longest Dutch revolt I'd seen. From 1540s to 1590s. I let them in control of the Dutch provinces from the beginning but, they took their time in forming a government. The 70k rebels caused quite a stir when a North German V Spain war broke out. They took Kleves

Also the first time I saw Hainault and Artois get a Dutch rebellion % although much lower than in their core provinces.

Anyway, Dutch proclaim independence and I move in and overrun the country. Badboy before=3 I took Flanders and Zeeland. Badboy after=3. Maybe the Dutch revolt is a special case, I lost 3 provinces, in the deal, gained 2 and the badboy stayed the same.

Right now Poland has a badboy of 22 and they've been losing some provinces in the continual wars. Nice to see their provinces in flames of revolt too. After 10 years their allies are starting to drop out. The AI made some pretty good anti-Polish alliances:

Turkey, most of middle east and Crimea

Denmark, Sweden, Russia, Golden Horde

Hansa, Hannover, Georgia and Ukraine

Some of those were Polish allies before the madness. I know that the AI has been criticized for not making better anti-bb alliances, but I've always seen it do a pretty good job. Now when the next patch fixes war preparations, it's going to really be tough for powermongers.

 

[unmerged(827)]

No I did

How did you win. I got exactly what I wanted.

If you think you won when I got what I wanted, then you are more delusional that I could ever imagine..

 

[unmerged(905)]

+10 for me with Aztecs

I Annexed the Aztecs in a total of 1 month. Declared war then sent 4 armies on them. Before the DoW my Badboy was -1. After the Annexation my Badboy was +9. I have the saves with only a month of seperation.

I am almost positive that I took a badboy hit here for number of cities/number of colonies along with the annexation. I only gained four provinces and took a +10 hit. Wow.

--Avenger

 

[unmerged(598)]

Following on from my Spanish game, Venice declared war on my ally (Austria), and I entered the war. Was a good excuse to interfere in Italy. I made a white peace with one of Venice's allies that was friendly to me to ensure that I wouldn't get caught in a peace by my ally.

I 'liberated' Rome from England and Romagne from Courland (yes Courland!) and took a hit from -3 to -1 on the badboy rating for those two. I then annexed Naples who contolled Naples, Emilia and Apulia and took a hit of 9 points, going from -1 to +8. All provinces taken as part of a defensive war. I presume the Naples provinces were higher because they were Catholic, and maybe extra for a complete annexation?

In the same game I saw the best anti-badboy play by the AI. Poland was at around +30 really expanded up and down the Baltic, into Germany and Crimea. Within 20 years Poland was down to around +5. Non-stop war against very good alliances (mentioned in a previous post) and every Polish ally deserted them. By the end, they lost all their gains and more, Ukraine and Pskov declared independence and fought off Poland's attempts to reconquer them. German states reclaimed their losses, Swedes took some of the Polish Baltic, Turks took some, Russia took some. By the end of it Poland also had to fight a civil war. It was very nice to see the AI fight effectively, and now Poland is very weak, and ripe for Russia to eat it up even more.

 

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Cool Sean

Its nice to see that the AI is playing so well in your game. My game seems to move pretty slowly.

--Avenger

 

[Yasko]

The badboy rating seems to work ok, with contries like Austria and England, in my current game i anekted Bohemia and within 100 years i peacfully annekted Venice and Hungary, my badboy value is 14 at the year 1599, so far så good. As England i annekted Scotland at begining of the game and my badboy value is 1 after 60 years(i lost calais to France)

I think the main problem is if you play Spain, Russia and especially the Ottomans. If you try to achive what those countries did historically in the 1500s, the whole world is going to hate you, maybe lowereing the collected badboy value if you have casus belli in another country is a solution.

 

[unmerged(548)]

All provinces taken as part of a defensive war.

You shouldn't get ANY BB at all if the war is truly defensive.
What probably happens is that you are regareded as the war initiator as soon as you made that initial white peace, betraying your allies and separting yourself from the joint noble (defensive) effort.

It's easily enough to check in your savefile though, the wars are listed in the beginning just after the alliances.


I think the main problem is if you play Spain, Russia and especially the Ottomans. If you try to achive what those countries did historically in the 1500s, the whole world is going to hate you, maybe lowereing the collected badboy value if you have casus belli in another country is a solution.

This is already how it works, BB 18 for 15 provinces is hardly too much IMO, for Russia swallowing all 3 khanates (and your certainly not forced to take all these porvinces if you don't want too, only need 6 of them to reach Siberia, the reast are optional).
Can't speak for Spain or the Turks, but with Russia the BB effects are highly exagurated on this board. In fact with the current changes in 1.08 I'm able to powermong quite effectivly playing Russia without the AI even bothering with me. This will probably change as I get to the german minors, the question is if I'm not going to bee too strong by then.

 

[Yasko]

'This is already how it works, BB 18 for 15 provinces is hardly too much IMO, for Russia swallowing all 3 khanates (and your certainly not forced to take all these porvinces if you don't want too, only need 6 of them to reach Siberia, the reast are optional).
Can't speak for Spain or the Turks, but with Russia the BB effects are highly exagurated on this board. In fact with the current changes in 1.08 I'm able to powermong quite effectivly playing Russia without the AI even bothering with me. This will probably change as I get to the german minors, the question is if I'm not going to bee too strong by then.'

Ok, i started a new GC with Turkey, DOW against memlukes and annektation, Ottomans have CB shields all over the memlukes and its 13 provinces, my badboy value is already 18. Here is the problem, historically Ottomans Annekted Hungary 1526, thats 9 provinces, i think whalaccia and moldovia was annekted around that time(i´m not sure), that means +2 for two DOWs and +2 for two provinces(do you get extra BB points due to annektation?). So we have 18+10(Hungary with DOW)+4(Moldovia and Whalllacia)=32 which means the whole world will attack me in the next war, including those small sunni states who historically were vassalised during that time.....

 

[unmerged(548)]

I agree that BB sounds a bit high for the Ottomans if those values are correct.

However, I'd like to comment on the last rows of your post:

the whole world will attack me in the next war, including those small sunni states who historically were vassalised during that time.....

Well, mayby you should actually ally & vassalise these countries before you begin annexing everything around then.....
It's not going to happen by itself you know, whatever tweaks are implemented to the BB value. If you try to do what the Turks did without first mustering the support they had from other muslim countries, why do you even expect to be as successfull at they where ? Without support you will fail, end of story.

This btw goes for all countries, first build up a strong alliance around you, then go on the offensive to annex. The other way around doesn't work, neighter in the game or in reality of the EU period.

 

[Yasko]

'Well, mayby you should actually ally & vassalise these countries before you begin annexing everything around then.....

'It's not going to happen by itself you know, whatever tweaks are implemented to the BB value. If you try to do what the Turks did without first mustering the support they had from other muslim countries, why do you even expect to be as successfull at they where ? Without support you will fail, end of story.'

Ottomans didn't have significant allies during that time except the Chrimean-khanet who contributed with their famous cavalry. And yes I have a military alliance with them.All the other small states(like hedjaz, tripol.., Tunis, cyrenica) seeked ottoman help to be protected, they were not big help, and they are not a big help in the game either. But the problem is that even your Sunni vassals starts to declare war on you, when you go out an conquer the provinces ottomans, conquered historically. Like I said before, having the Christian states+Persia declaring war on me is ok. But having those sunnistates who seeked protection of the Ottomans and got vassalised, declaring war on me is unhistorical, the problem is not having strong alliances here, its the sunni states (vassals or not) attacking me......


'This btw goes for all countries, first build up a strong alliance around you, then go on the offensive to annex. The other way around doesn't work, neighter in the game or in reality of the EU period.'

Well it worked for the Ottomans, at least until the 17th century.......

 

[unmerged(538)]

Badboy sucks

Ok, badboy is starting to piss me off ridiculously. No matter how nice I am it seems like I always get every nation to eventually hate me.

The game is great. Addictive, but there are things that piss me off greatly.

Concluding peace. I was England and France got ganked so I decided to join in with my allies. Most of mainland France was occupied and the refused to give me at least 3 provinces. I had to settle for 2. It was ridiculous. They had no armies, no ports, basically no money left at all.

Another thing. I'm playing a game as France now. I give 100 ducats to The Palatin. Trying to get enough allies to be succesful against Spain. I had trouble getting the Palatin as an ally. So I gave them the money, it only raises our Relationship +4!!!!!!! What a waste of money.

Badboy is severely pissing me off. You can't even expand in the slightest.

One question, as Scotland I have occuppied all of England. Do I have to conquer their colonies too in order to Annex?? Because I can't annex them yet and it's bugging me.

Badboy is wrong to me. Especially as in my game with England. My only friends are Austria/Poland. and one minor. THose are the only relations I have +25. The only thing I have done is taken 2 provinces from France/ Annexed scotland/ and taken Holland from Spain. That's it.

And I only attacked Spain because they were entering my colonies in Southamerica. Especially the three Goldmines. And now they have one because I forgot to get it in negotiations.

The computer seems biased.

Other nations suffer less affects for bullying people. Poland has annexed TO/Prussia/Courland and everyone still likes them.

Computer suffers less from Attrition. I was defending Calias and a 120k allied army sat there for 4 months and suffered about 10k in attrition, with no reinforcements!!!!

That's crazy. The province only supports 26k in a siege!

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Huszics
I agree that BB sounds a bit high for the Ottomans if those values are correct.

And for Russia too... In the original boardgame, these 2 countries have some privileges. In the computer game, BB values should be lowered for them.

 

[unmerged(528)]

QUOTE:
'One question, as Scotland I have occuppied all of England. Do I have to conquer their colonies too in order to Annex?? Because I can't annex them yet and it's bugging me.'

Well you have to conquer all their provinces in order to force annex them - the option has to have been selected in the beginning for it to be allowed and you have to have had made England annexable - by making them a minor.

 

[unmerged(905)]

I am playing Spain a third time and now I'm getting tired of the game. My only wars were against the Aztecs and the Incas. I annexed them both in October of 1511. My badboy is now at 29. I am the pariah of europe.

It shouldn't matter to europeans that I have annexed these primitive tribes.

--Avenger

 

[grumbold]

I think the BB problems hit home most when the rest of the world somehow manages to keep their BB values very low. Perhaps they gain all their provinces in defensive wars? A game I abandoned as Russia had me in perpetual war having only taken Kazan and (more than 10 years later) the Golden Horde. This was still enough to put me significantly in the lead in BB value. Only PL had a positive value despite France having Calais and Kent and Spain spreading like wildfire in the New World. I believe BB needs to be changed somewhat to reflect power rather than expansion. BB turns a small expansionist country into a more hated object than one which is already dominant like Spain or France. If England conquers Scotland and Russia conquers the Khanates they should be making the world more wary of them but Spain should still be perceived as the bigger threat.

 

[unmerged(548)]

And for Russia too... In the original boardgame, these 2 countries have some privileges.

Compairing Russia in the BG vs CG is a bit troublesom. Since Russia wasn't even a playernation fro the first century you couldn't whipe out Poland entirely or colonize all the way through Siberia before the year 1600. You can now...

 

[unmerged(538)]

Originally posted by bogh
QUOTE:
'One question, as Scotland I have occuppied all of England. Do I have to conquer their colonies too in order to Annex?? Because I can't annex them yet and it's bugging me.'

Well you have to conquer all their provinces in order to force annex them - the option has to have been selected in the beginning for it to be allowed and you have to have had made England annexable - by making them a minor.

By replacing them in the Grand campaign file have I made them annexable or is there somewhere to do this?

My question is more specifically, must I conquer all the colonies too?

And how do I burn trading posts?

 

[unmerged(538)]

BB

Yes, most of Europe seems to achieve low BB values through mircales.

AS I discused in my other post, I am accusing the computer of cheating. They seem to be able to upgrade every Province to a level 2 fort by 1495. Even in scotland the poor land, and all the baliffs are promoted.

Armies suffer little attrition. It's making me angry. 120k armies melt away in provinces only capable of 26k, I don't care who the leader is.

I'm trying to get my BB value down in France after I annexed Tuscany, Genoa, Milan. Papal States, Savoy are still nice to me.

No surprise the rest of the world hates me. Even Lorrain despite 300 ducats in gifts the hatred is still -100. Russia is +25, and the Ottomans are the most friendly of all major Powers. +60.

Question, anyway to tinker with the BB values, or offset them in the code somehwere so I can annex.

Especially when annexing people of other religions. Like Incas, Iroqois, Aztecs, europe shouldn't care about these people and historically they gave less than a crap about them.

And if I am catholic and annex Muslim lands, BB should be lowered to other Catholic countries. I'm doing God's work after all. It shouldn't increase.

 

[unmerged(598)]

More Badboy Numbers For Stephen

Some more badboy changes that I've noticed after wars.

Inheriting Bavaria as Spain +1
Taking 3 Ottoman provinces +3
Annexing Protestant Wurtemburg as Austria +9

Just as I thought these things may be a little predictable, that +9 blew me away. Going from -1 to +8. In 100 years of a 1 min to 2 year campaign as Austria, I've taken Mantua and Wurtemburg and now sit top among the badboys. Trouble is just around the corner for doing this.

 

[Yasko]

'Just as I thought these things may be a little predictable, that +9 blew me away. Going from -1 to +8. In 100 years of a 1 min to 2 year campaign as Austria, I've taken Mantua and Wurtemburg and now sit top among the badboys. Trouble is just around the corner for doing this.'

The secret word for taking provinces with Austria without rising your badboy, is defensive wars....

I´m in year 1653 and my badboy value is 11. I peacfully annexed Hungary and Venice. Military annexation of Böhmen(actually the only war i started), i have taking all the provinces west of moldovia, Wallacia, Bulgaria, Kosovo, Serbia and Regusa(including these provinces, and two provinces from the papal states wich i dont remember + krakow from polen, all with defensive wars....