badboy problem in force-annex

[doronz]

I have a question. Or maybe a problem. Playing with 1.50 AGCEEP, Fantasy Byzantium scenario, picked country = BYZ (obviously), quite early in the game (1421) I dowed Athens and forceannexed them. The problem is that I got 6BB for that instead of the previewed 3BB as we do not share the same religion (they are Catholic and me Orthodox). What's wrong then? Is it just a bug (the only province they have is orthodox, I dunno, maybe that's the reason...). Many thanks

 

[unmerged(32886)]

It's not the religion that matters, but the religious group. Force annexing a country of the same religious group gets you +6 BB. The religious groups are:
- christian: catholic, protestant, reformed, orthodox, CRC.
- non-christian: shiite, sunni, hindu, buddhism, confucionism.

I got this info from the Badboy thread in the FAQ section .

 

[doronz]

It's not the religion that matters, but the religious group. Force annexing a country of the same religious group gets you +6 BB. The religious groups are:
- christian: catholic, protestant, reformed, orthodox, CRC.
- non-christian: shiite, sunni, hindu, buddhism, confucionism.

I got this info from the Badboy thread in the FAQ section .

Hmmm.
so basically there are just 2 religious groups? On the EU2wiki I found this:

Gaining Badboy
You gain BB largely as a function of warfare: declaring wars, and taking provinces in peace deals, though there are some exceptions. Here is the short version:

BB Action
-- ------
1 Declaration of War (with casus belli)
2 DoW (w/o CB) relations +100 or more
4 DoW (w/o CB) relations less than +100
0 Gain a core province in any war
1 Gain a non-core province in a defensive war
2 Gain a non-core province in an offensive war
3 Force annex a country of different religion
6 Force annex a country of the same religion

IMO gaining 6BB for forceannexing a country of a different religion,if it in the same religious group, is a bit 2 much! As it has a different religion, it is supposed to be your enemy.
So I don't think it should be the same BB as if you forceannex a country sharing your same religion, that is supposed to be your ally. IMO there should be a distinction btw same religion and diff religion. I don't get the sense of this rule.

 

[Dell19]

The BB system isn't exactly the most balanced feature of the game. It can be annoying that a low value province costs the same number of BB points as capturing a high value trade centre. Surely other nations would care more about the trade centre? Additionally on the extended maps like MyMap there is a case to be made for BB points to be less.

Oh and the entire concept is a bit bizarre as you can get 2 BB points for capturing a Catholic province under Muslim control when theoretically other Catholic nations might actually appreciate it. This is sort of applicable in your situation where other Orthodox nations would accept it however Catholic nations would dislike you annexing Athens and additionally a number of nations wouldn't like Byzantium showing signs of a comeback.

You can always edit the saved game file which sort of works as the AI seems to control BB quite well except for Burgundy. Otherwise its something you just have to live with and keep in mind when playing.

 

[doronz]

It's not the religion that matters, but the religious group. Force annexing a country of the same religious group gets you +6 BB. The religious groups are:
- christian: catholic, protestant, reformed, orthodox, CRC.
- non-christian: shiite, sunni, hindu, buddhism, confucionism.

I got this info from the Badboy thread in the FAQ section .

I'm sure that in my previous games, playing as a buddhist country or as a pagan one, whenever I force-annexed a country not sharing my same truth I never got 6BB! So guess that all the non-christian religious are each in a different religious group (not sure about sunnis and shi'ites).
I know that, as it is now, BB is not the most realistic system to express other countries concerns about your expansion, but just as survey I'd like to know how many people agree in giving 6BB in a force-annex of a different christian country.
As for Dell19 says, if you FA a country, the other countries sharing the religion of the country you FAed, do actually decrease the relation with you. So this effect is already considered.

 

[Dell19]

I know but the long term relation effects are not. It does make sense in regards to how aggressive you have been overall however it makes less sense when a side effect it continually damages relations even though you might be attacking a different religion.

 

[CatKnight]

I'm fine with the 6 BB.

The Christians are saying "Why isn't that punk doing something about the Ottomans?"

The Muslims are saying "Hmm, he's starting to grow again. This isn't cool."

 

[jdrou]

Hmmm.
so basically there are just 2 religious groups? On the EU2wiki I found this:

You could say there are three groups since pagan is not in either one but pagan annexations are covered by a different rule. The FAQ is possibly clearer than the wiki: http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234404 . The force-annex rule should probably say "Force-annex a non-pagan country of same religious group**".