Bad Job Priorities

[bobucles]

Can you tell me what is wrong with this picture?

Or this one?

Or how about this one?

Long story short, the job assignment system is bad. It doesn't harvest resources in dire need, it doesn't harvest the rare planet features that are ALWAYS worth it, it over emphasizes bad jobs that don't pay off, and the manual """"priority""" system doesn't prioritize anything.

Closing jobs is stupid. There is no reasonable situation to force pops out of work except in the most strange of situations. Even then, it makes more sense to shut down excess buildings and change districts to remove jobs and save upkeep at the same time.

When resources are in the negative, pops should be working those jobs. Forcing workers on energy when food is falling doesn't make sense.

Pops not working rare resources does not make sense. It makes even less sense when those resources are in the negative. Rare resources are always better than vanilla jobs and if they aren't then they don't qualify as rare.

For whatever reason maintenance drones have a higher priority than makes sense. When 20% of a planet's pops are giving the rest an extra 12% output it's a net loss of resources. Pops should be working open jobs before they splurge on excess amenities, at least for gestalts.

Here's how to fix the job priority buttons:
- The minus sign no longer closes jobs. Instead it deprioritizes job slots. Pops will not work the location until all other jobs are filled. For amenity jobs, it may make more sense to never fill the job slot unless amenities are negative.
- The plus sign prioritizes a job. Pops will fill all priority jobs before being auto distributed.

 

[roman566]

How To Fix Job System:

Step 1. Make the planetary window large enough to show all jobs without the need to scroll.
Step 2. Add special option to disable automatic job movement. New pops will be placed based on existing weights, but won't be moved around without player intervention.
Step 3. Introduce the new and revolutionary system known as 'drag and drop'.

 

[Rios_]

Trouble with drag and drop is that while it helps the player, it does nothing for the ai and puts a notable micro burden on the player (one of the selling points of the new design was to reduce that sort of micro), where as properly implemented weights for pop job assignments will help both. Drag and drop also requires work from graphics artists, which tends to be at a bigger time premium then other bits of dev time, so for a stop gap solution it's less then ideal.

That said, the images above shouldn't be happening, the amenities one is especially bad given the return on excess amenities is not good unless you need to prioritise a processed good like alloys, and they are fixable as several ai mods have fixed them. Get this fix in for the first patch next year and most of the "ai is too weak" complaints will probably go away, as it's this sort of thing that causes it to fall behind and get stuck.

 

[Draconaes]

Why are there so many more jobs than pops on those screenshots? Did a bunch of pops get resettled/killed?

 

[Retry]

Trouble with drag and drop is that while it helps the player, it does nothing for the ai and puts a notable micro burden on the player (one of the selling points of the new design was to reduce that sort of micro), where as properly implemented weights for pop job assignments will help both. Drag and drop also requires work from graphics artists, which tends to be at a bigger time premium then other bits of dev time, so for a stop gap solution it's less then ideal.

Drag&Drop doing nothing for AI isn't an issue, AI problems are an entirely separate issue anyways. Ship Designer does nothing for AI too, for example.

I really don't think they achieved the lower-micro goal they set out initially either, certainly not for Wide empires in any case.

Wasn't the old Tile system basically drag&drop anyways? Why would that be such a hassle to make?

 

[Losttruppen]

Drag and drop also requires work from graphics artists

This work was done for 1.0 release 2.5 years ago and remove 2 weeks past. I also don't think it was what held the AI back from using its pops effectively.

I would definitely be into a larger planet window. The construction queue, job lists, and the tiny building tabs that are half taken up by expensive upgrade buttons are all very constrained in the new planet UI.

While I agree it is probably a nuissance to manage a large number of planets with the new system, I don't think it should micromanage your economy for you to the point OP is suggesting. The biggest problem with the new system is how the pops automatically move themselves, adding more pop jumping about will just bring us back to the early days when the AI would just move pops around planets like whackamole.

You should be able to set up a new planet with a couple districts and buildings(once you can afford a bit of energy upkeep) and let it fill naturally, but right now with strata jumps being instant and semi-permanent it's just a hassle trying to keep your planets producing at their current output. I would love to see lore-friendly options for different empires to manually move pops up a strata, that takes time akin to reeducation or drone-specialization to fill specialist jobs.

It should not be an immediate upgrade from a menial labourer to a dark portal researcher. Newly bred pops should be able to jump right into specialist roles and specialists can migrate, but if you capture a planet and build 10 research facilities that should take a couple years to fully staff, not result in a famine because the farmers wanted cushier jobs and forged their credentials and lied about past job experience to the science recruiters.

 

[ArmChairAttila]

Labeling the job assignment as stupid or bad is pure opinion and conjecture. Which means that opinion is borderline irrelevant. The game has tools built in to help you micromanage which jobs YOU want. I may want a completely different assignment and I will use the tools in the game to get them.

 

[calen]

Labeling the job assignment as stupid or bad is pure opinion and conjecture. Which means that opinion is borderline irrelevant. The game has tools built in to help you micromanage which jobs YOU want. I may want a completely different assignment and I will use the tools in the game to get them.

Just because the game already as tool doesn't necessarily mean those are good tools.

 

[ArmChairAttila]

Just because the game already as tool doesn't necessarily mean those are good tools.

Just because random internet guy has a opinion does not make his opinion valid.

Tools may or may not be the best. I have not need to use them much because I do not overbuild my planets with a bunch of empty job slots. The only time I mess with the tool is with hives and maintenance drone jobs.

 

[calen]

Just because random internet guy has a opinion does not make his opinion valid.

Irony much

 

[bobucles]

Why are there so many more jobs than pops on those screenshots? Did a bunch of pops get resettled/killed?

+180% Pop growth rate is a hell of a drug. I have 1500 pops to worry about in 2300. 10 free jobs will last 10 years so it's not as crazy as you might think. Gotta stay ahead of the curve.

I have not need to use them much because I do not overbuild my planets with a bunch of empty job slots

Bad tools tend to not be very useful. The job priority system will place pops into the synthesized rares before it will place them into the FREE rares. That's objectively a bad allocation and there's no sane way to defend it.

 

[ArmChairAttila]

Ditto

 

[ArmChairAttila]

And the next post complaining about job assignments will probably be something like this. "Why are my pops on rares and not on energy when I have a energy shortage."

 

[calen]

And the next post complaining about job assignments will probably be something like this. "Why are my pops on rares and not on energy when I have a energy shortage."

Which is somehow worse then the post complaining about the post, complaining about the game? Gotta love that logic.

 

[roman566]

Trouble with drag and drop is that while it helps the player, it does nothing for the ai and puts a notable micro burden on the player (one of the selling points of the new design was to reduce that sort of micro), where as properly implemented weights for pop job assignments will help both. Drag and drop also requires work from graphics artists, which tends to be at a bigger time premium then other bits of dev time, so for a stop gap solution it's less then ideal.

How does the game work now:

Habitat, 3 empty enforcer jobs, 9 empty scientist jobs, 10 empty soldier jobs. New pop goes into soldier job. Want him an enforcer? Click 10 times on soldier to force him to promote, click 9 times on scientist to send him to enforcer, click 9 times to open job slots. Whoops, enforcer went into scientist because job weight is higher? Click 9 times on scientist to put him into enforcer again. Then every time new pop appears open one scientist job until you need your second enforcer.

Now repeat this for TWENTY HABITATS.

Fixed weights so now enforcers are the most important? The opposite happens - rather than go to science, you have to keep the new guy from going into enforcer job.

You CAN'T fix this system. There will always be a situation when pre-scripted weights will fail to do what the player wants.

 

[ArmChairAttila]

Raman566 gets it!

 

[yerm]

Just let us rank job priority within tiers on our worlds. That's really the crux of the problem. Pretty much everything else, even if annoying, seems by design and/or manageable. This part is a nightmare.

 

[Playwars]

How does the game work now:

Habitat, 3 empty enforcer jobs, 9 empty scientist jobs, 10 empty soldier jobs. New pop goes into soldier job. Want him an enforcer? Click 10 times on soldier to force him to promote, click 9 times on scientist to send him to enforcer, click 9 times to open job slots. Whoops, enforcer went into scientist because job weight is higher? Click 9 times on scientist to put him into enforcer again. Then every time new pop appears open one scientist job until you need your second enforcer.

Now repeat this for TWENTY HABITATS.

Fixed weights so now enforcers are the most important? The opposite happens - rather than go to science, you have to keep the new guy from going into enforcer job.

You CAN'T fix this system. There will always be a situation when pre-scripted weights will fail to do what the player wants.

EXCEPT if you use the suggestions posted above :

-Being able to manually assign job priority.

-Being able to stop the automove of pops and have the ability to drag and drop sais pops.

Personally I'd prefer job priority assignment but the option to drag and drop would be nice.

 

[roman566]

EXCEPT if you use the suggestions posted above :

-Being able to manually assign job priority.

Won't help. I have given a simple example with one race. How would the priority system chose races? Say, you want your domestic servants to work as entertainers, but your race will nearly always take priority. How do you prioritize worker jobs? Or soldier jobs? Let's say we add 10 slaves in my scenario that I want as soldiers, but the game will always prioritize my people over slaves so every time new pop grows I have to go to the planet, fire all soldiers so my pop promotes, then hire them again.

Adding priorities will only mess up a system that's already messed up.

 

[Baqar79]

Agree with OP, would love to have a priority system (perhaps the top being the lowest priority, so less scrolling to see what jobs are vacant).

By setting priorities within tiers, it becomes much easier to manage promotions since regardless of who is promoted, the job priority will ensure pops move within the strata to fill any vacancies made by that promotion, so you have a much better idea of how a promotion to a new strata is going to effect your colony.

I would even go further and allow changing of job priorities on buildings/districts being built in your queue (just have them appear as semi-transparent empty jobs) so you have a bit more control over how a colony is going to develop without having to wait for a building with new jobs to finish first before setting it's job priorities.