Bad Faith Withdrawal?

[Deathdealer 6]

So I decided to take a three skull contract with Davion, as I was nearing allied status with them. I land against what intel says is an elite pirate lance.

I have an Orion, 2 Wolverines, and a Trebuchet with decently upgraded mechwarriors.

The enemy has two assault mechs (Victor and Awesome) and two heavy mechs (Thunderbolt and Quickdraw).

I focus fire and core the Victor. I take down the Thunderbolt, but also lose my Orion. I feel outclassed with three mediums left (with battle damage) vs a fully armored Awesome and Quickdraw.

I try to withdraw but I get informed it is bad faith! I took down an assault and a heavy mech, but it is still bad faith?

So I stay and fight on, but am only able to knock a torso off the Awesome while I lose my remaining mechs.

Does this fit with your experience with bad faith withdrawals? I guess I don't understand what constitutes bad faith. Being outclassed by 2 assaults and 2 heavies vs your 1 heavy and 3 mediums while destroying 1 assault and 1 heavy would appear to me to be a good faith effort.

Of course, I could have taken the bad faith reputation penalty rather than watch as my outclassed lance was annihilated; however, I wanted to see if the withdrawal option would change to good faith as I nearly destroyed the second assault mech.

Anyways, catastrophic failure to the mission. What is your experience with good vs bad faith withdrawals?

 

[Dark Radiance]

To make a good faith withdrawal, you must complete a primary mission objective and kill an enemy mech. If you don't achieve both, it will be a bad faith withdrawal.

 

[Havamal]

Bad faith just means you didn't do enough for partial payment.

If I was you I would have still taken the initial withdraw.

Can't comment on the rest. I don't recall if I've ever actually withdrawn without at least completing a primary objective.

 

[Deathdealer 6]

Thanks for the clarification. Since killing the pirate lance was the only objective, that explains things.

In my mind, you withdraw when you can't complete the mission with the resources you have available. Achieving 50% of the mission objective seems like a good faith effort to me. Apparently not, based on the way the game designers approached the issue.

 

[SQW]

Thanks for the clarification. Since killing the pirate lance was the only objective, that explains things.

In my mind, you withdraw when you can't complete the mission with the resources you have available. Achieving 50% of the mission objective seems like a good faith effort to me. Apparently not, based on the way the game designers approached the issue.

I did a convoy destroy mission with an under strength light/medium lance and the opfor were heavy vehicles and a lance of medium/heavy guard plus another lance of reinforcements. Managed to takeout only 2 vehicles before I had to bug out and got a good faith withdraw with a decent chunk of money and some rep gain.

Also, when going into overwhelming opfor missions, always have JJs on all your mechs and use the terrain. Don't just use the trees but LOS blocking hills or ravines. Take your time to cool your mech safely rather than trying to sustain constant fire. Most importantly, try to do back shots. A 3-1 split or a cardinal split will ensure some firepower is always going to the rear. That's why you inspect the map and choose which area is best for this tactic. A sensor locking Spider plus beyond-LOS sniping with PPCs on other mobile platforms will always confound the AI.

If you are unfortunate enough to pull the other lance in early then immediately consider bailing.

 

[Critter667]

One point... I have found that selecting Restart Mission from the ESC menu may cause the enemy force to change setup.

 

[stjobe]

Well, count your blessings - I didn't withdraw and this was the result:

Bad Faith Withdrawal since I had only managed to complete 75% of the primary mission, so zero C-Bills and no salvage.

Background: What should have been a normal-to-challenging 1.5-star "Repossession" mission turned sour when the vehicle lance turned out to consist of a Striker, a Manticore, a SRM carrier, and a Demolisher, all in pristine condition. They were backed up by a light lance of 'Mechs consisting of two Spiders, a Locust M, and a Panther.

As soon as I get eyes on the enemy, I see a Striker and a Manticore; I focus-fire the Manticore and kill it. Next turn, a SRM carrier appears, so naturally I feel that I really, really need to take it out - it is within range of my units and if it's allowed to fire, something will die. So I aggressively move forward to take it out, even jumping the Hatchetman into the open to finish the SRM carrier off. Big mistake #1.

On the very same turn, a Demolisher moves into LoS and range of the Hatchetman and pops not one but two AC/20s straight into its CT. Bummer, but I still feel that if I can take that Demolisher, there's only the Striker left, and the light lance isn't really a danger. Big mistake #2.

During the next turn, I cannot put enough damage on the Demolisher to kill it, so it trundles up to my Jenner and blows its CT out through its right side. At this point I'm starting to eye that Withdraw button, but decide to give it one more turn. Big mistake #3.

My Panthers manage to kill the Demolisher on the next turn, but now the light lance is close enough to swarm me. They manage to leg one of my Panthers, and that's all she wrote. Before I get to activate again, both Panthers are CT cored, one by a Spider and the other by the enemy Panther.

Nine turns. That's how fast you can go from everything looking peachy-keen to a career in ruins.

I haven't even bothered to look at the repair times, as soon as I got back to the Argo I quit the game. I have one rookie MechWarrior not in sickbay, and two in sickbay. I have a single UrbanMech (modded into the starting lance together with the Hatchetman) that's drop-ready, one Panther that is ready in two weeks, and the four above. I'm guessing the better part of a year before all of those are in working condition again.

So, as I said, count your blessings. At least you got to withdraw

 

[LemurFromTheId]

Background: What should have been a normal-to-challenging 1.5-star "Repossession" mission turned sour when the vehicle lance turned out to consist of a Striker, a Manticore, a SRM carrier, and a Demolisher, all in pristine condition. They were backed up by a light lance of 'Mechs consisting of two Spiders, a Locust M, and a Panther.

Oh yeah, the dreaded 1½-skull Reposession... Just had that some time ago. My medium lance landed in a wooded ravine where movement was restricted. Four light mechs rushed me immediately, and the vehicles started to pummel me from maximum distance. The vehicles being a scorpion, a manticore and two LRM carriers. Didn't stick to see how that would've turned out...

 

[SQW]

Oh yeah, the dreaded 1½-skull Reposession... Just had that some time ago. My medium lance landed in a wooded ravine where movement was restricted. Four light mechs rushed me immediately, and the vehicles started to pummel me from maximum distance. The vehicles being a scorpion, a manticore and two LRM carriers. Didn't stick to see how that would've turned out...

Smart man/woman. I always have JJs on my mech when taking on wooded maps and yes, if you can't get to those LRM carriers asap, leg it!

 

[Masoz]

I think the morale loss from bad faith withdrawals might be a tad too punishing now that reputation actually matters. That's the main reason I'll risk my pilots to get a good faith effort. Morale is expensive, and I might as well sacrifice a pilot in a good faith attempt and lose a morale from the casualty, rather than guarantee it by bugging out right away and sacrificing pay and rep as well. Sometimes though, you just have no choice.

 

[BunglingLummox]

To make a good faith withdrawal, you must complete a primary mission objective and kill an enemy mech. If you don't achieve both, it will be a bad faith withdrawal.

Not quite. A secondary objective is adequate. For example, if you fail an assassination mission but take out the supporting forces, that's good faith.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Bad Faith Withdrawals?

Yeah, I’ve hit that button plenty of times. Even had a Bad Faith Withdrawal in my Current Career Mode Match.

Reputation doesn’t Repair Cored Mechs.

Reputation doesn’t resurrect deceased MechWarriors.

Reputation can be repaired.


But it is a damnably difficult decision to make... do I give it one more turn, tempt fate and let one more OpFor Mech take its turn, or do I hit the Withdraw Button and Live to Fight another day?

In many respects such decisions constitute the heart of the BATTLETECH CommandSIM for me, : )

 

[ronhatch]

Bad Faith Withdrawals?

Yeah, I’ve hit that button plenty of times. Even had a Bad Faith Withdrawal in my Current Career Mode Match.

Reputation doesn’t Repair Cored Mechs.

Reputation doesn’t resurrect deceased MechWarriors.

Reputation can be repaired.


But it is a damnably difficult decision to make... do I give it one more turn, tempt fate and let one more OpFor Mech take its turn, or do I hit the Withdraw Button and Love to Fight another day?

In many respects such decisions constitute the heart of the BATTLETECH CommandSIM for me, : )

Agreed... though I've only used it occasionally.

I've been playing a pieces-of-8 campaign for no other reason than to get the achievement for assembling 10 mechs that way. I set salvage high since I didn't want the grind to be too bad, but I turned on mech destruction because there should be consequences... even without Ironman.

Still haven't been able to assemble any mediums from parts, and I lost the story Centurion because I was trying to make sure the withdrawal that I had accepted as inevitable would be in good faith. It was, but as you say... that fact didn't repair my cored mech.