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Five_X

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BAD COPT, GOOD COPT




DOWNLOAD HERE (CURRENT VERSION: 1.1):
----------------------
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7A15sNv7rvFYUlwN0hoRUo4YkE/view?usp=sharing
----------------------

While the Eastern churches are wonderfully vibrant and full of their own unique and interesting potential, this potential hasn't quite been tapped by Paradox. Even Orthodoxy has more to it than the Armenian and Coptic faiths, which is a bit sad, though to be fair much of the Orthodox flavour focuses on the Byzantine Empire.

So, what does this mod do to improve upon that?

FEATURES:
----------------
-Miaphysite and Nestorian characters can become vegetarians

-Miaphysites can interact with Desert Fathers and Desert Mothers, who are wandering ascetic theologians. A highly zealous or pious Miaphysite can even become an ascetic, renouncing all of their wealth and titles - effectively offering rulers a method with which they can abdicate to their current heir. Desert Fathers and Mothers will appear in your court from time to time as long as you're a ruler in the Middle East, Persia, or Abyssinia; however, after a few years they will move on, so don't expect to keep them forever! Basically, after a while a Desert Father/Mother that's arrived in your court will "banish" themselves, going away to a different court. This way, the "wandering" aspect of their asceticism is represented.

-A lengthy event chain in which pious Miaphysites can embark on a journey to take the body of Saint Mark, patron of the Coptic people, back from the perfidious Venetians who stole his body not long before the game starts in 867. End their false Catholic veneration of a Coptic saint, and through many events involving lots of skill- and trait-based options, bring a saint back to his proper home.

-Two new Holy Orders specifically for Miaphysites: the first is the Knights of Saint Mark, an ahistorical military order that can be formed to protect Saint Mark in Alexandria - and by extension, the Coptic faith - once you have recovered the saint's body. The other is the historical Order of Saint Blaise; they arrive shortly after 1191, when they were formed historically by Armenian Miaphysites, or any time if there is a Christian ruler of Jerusalem. In history, the Turks eradicated the Order when they conquered Armenia - can you fare better than those medieval Armenians?

-There is no Miaphysite holy site in Makuria; now, that holy site has been relocated to Armenia, more specifically the location of Etchmiadzin Cathedral. This makes things more balanced for Armenian Miaphysites.

-A new Coptic culture, being sort of a mix of Arabic and Greek at this point, to make a comparison. Generally, at game start, every Miaphysite province in Egypt is also Coptic.

-Muslim Egyptians who are cynical about their faith or sympathetic towards Christians can receive an event that offers them the chance to lose prestige, but gain piety and become Coptic culture and embrace the Miaphysite religion. The AI will only rarely make the switch, but it does happen sometimes, especially if they're both cynical and have sympathy for Christians. I've seen Egypt go Coptic once in a test game, and it was pretty interesting!

-Miaphysite characters can follow the theological School of Antioch or the School of Alexandria; the former is focused on literal interpretations of Jesus and the Bible, with an emphasis on theology, whereas the latter is a more scholarly school that interprets the Bible in an allegorical sense, and seeks to make strides in secular (for the era) education in the sciences and medicine. These are fairly similar to the Mutazilite and Ashari traits for Sunni Muslims in Sons of Abraham, but they do have a few additional events for flavour: for example, a blind Miaphysite can visit the School of Alexandria and learn an early form of Braille, mostly negating the bad effects of being blind. Or, a character with high Learning can create a major theological or scholarly work if they are Antiochene or Alexandrine, respectively.

-Similar to the Orthodox, Miaphysite characters can mend the Great Schism and render the decisions of the Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon null and void. While in general less non-Miaphysites will flip to Miaphysite when the Schism is mended, this decision makes Nestorianism, Orthodox, and Catholicism all heresies of Miaphysitism. Just be wary of any of these new heretics re-replacing Miaphysitism as the official branch of Christianity!

-Zealous or highly pious followers of the Miaphysite, Nestorian and Orthodox faiths (not including heresies except Monophysitism) can embark on an ambition to achieve theosis. This involves a series of events that will go on and add to a variable which determines how holy the character is, rather than estimating this through piety alone. Through good works and self-purification, the character can potentially achieve local sainthood. Then, sometime after the character's death, their body might be uncovered and found to be pure. This this case, which can only happen at least 50 years after the local saint's death, they will be approved by the Ecumenical Patriarch, Coptic Pope or Patriarch of the East and declared a true saint of the Orthodox/Miaphysite/Nestorian Church.

UPDATE HISTORY:
----------------
v1.0-
Release!

v1.1-
-Updated to be compatible with patch 2.3
-Fixed some flag errors with the Theosis events that were causing the Sainthood event to fire off indefinitely for infinite piety
-Holy order title history should be fixed now, but the Order of Saint Blaise existing in the 12th century on until 1274 is intended
-Orthodox/Iconoclast characters can now be part of the Antiochene or Alexandrine schools
-Adjusted AI weights so that non-Oriental Orthodox Christians will be less likely to become Antiochene/Alexandrine
-Adjusted AI weights so that characters with high Learning are much more likely to become Antiochene/Alexandrine


-----------------------------------------

If anyone has any suggestions as to what might fit in the mod, then throw them at me! I'd be happy to consider them and see if I can get them in the game. Keep in mind, though, that this mods for the most part focuses on Miaphysitism; the things that are also available to Nestorians and Orthodox Christians are there only because it wouldn't make sense to make them exclusive to Miaphysites.

CREDITS:
--------------
Coptic culture by Mamluk, with a few name additions by me - http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...w-Cultures&p=16256371&viewfull=1#post16256371
Trait icons all done by AnaxXiphos - http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?751352-The-AnaxXiphos-Art-Thread
Vegetarian trait originally by cybrxkhan, tweaked for this mod by me - http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...nts-and-Traits-A-Modular-Flavor-and-Tweak-Mod
Localisation and bugtesting done by caocao268
 
Last edited:
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SBolshevik

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That title has to be the best pun I have ever seen.
I must play this mod now!

EDIT: Oh, dang, no download yet. :c
Well, I must be patient then.
 

LemonMonk

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I like these ideas and am looking forward to the mod. If a character is a vegetarian will they have a malus towards health or events related to it?
 

Five_X

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Yes, sorry about that. :p

This IS a work-in-progress; I just wanted to post up this thread when said work-in-progress is currently more "progress" than "work," so to speak. As I said above, it's fairly close to release, I just want to get people's thoughts and ideas before completing it.

^ Vegetarians I've actually given a bonus to health, actually, just sort of to simulate them living a healthy lifestyle and considering meat wasn't necessarily as sickness-free as it is today. The only events related to it so far are about becoming vegetarian, convincing other potential vegetarians to join your strange new league, and to become friends with other vegetarians.
 

loup99

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Very interesting, looking forward to this. For the schism I'm not so sure though. Take a look at this (quiet old) discussion about that subject.
 

Notgnirracen

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A great idea for a mod, I had been hoping for more Miaphysite features and the possibility of saints. Also, great name for the mod! :)
 

Five_X

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Very interesting, looking forward to this. For the schism I'm not so sure though. Take a look at this (quiet old) discussion about that subject.
Well, to be fair, it's not so much "mending the schism" as the Orthodox do, as it is arresting so much influence in the Christian world that, effectively, all the others become heresies. By revoking the previous ecumenical councils, namely the Council of Chalcedon, theologically speaking there becomes only one "official" branch of Christianity. Of course, as with the Orthodox mending of the schism, it requires high moral authority and control of all five traditional sees.

Though to be honest I might just rename it to the slightly less conventional or recognizable "Repudiate the Ecumenical Councils" or something similar.
 

alexxo97

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could iy at all be possible to make the miaphysite faith harder to convert because in general characters of that religion or conquered early on by muslims or orthodox and then it just dissapears all toguether
 

Five_X

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could iy at all be possible to make the miaphysite faith harder to convert because in general characters of that religion or conquered early on by muslims or orthodox and then it just dissapears all toguether
While I'd like to do that, but changing conversion times - that'd involve editing the council job events file (I want to change as few vital files as possible to maximize compatibility). Making Muslims attack Miaphysites less... that would involve adding a Baqt clause to the coding in the CB types file, which is another thing I don't want to touch. I've changed these things in my own personal mod; they're not to difficult to do; there's a mini-mod somewhere that offers up a Baqt code to stop Egypt from conquering East Africa, and just changing some MTTH values in the job events file and the province conversion file will make cultures and religions less likely to vanish.

But, honestly, it's not really stuff I'm going to include in this mod.
 

XXrider

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I need this mod so bad, I am terribly interested in Coptic culture and Miaphysite religion and always thought that it lacked some flavor... :D
 

Five_X

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I need this mod so bad, I am terribly interested in Coptic culture and Miaphysite religion and always thought that it lacked some flavor... :D
Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of resources to find on Copts and their history. I'm in London, so one of my areas of focus has been the British Museum; they have a fairly small but detailed exhibit on East African Christianity.
 

CypherFDP

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Just as heads-up, there's another Coptic culture name list in the thread, from an actual Copt. I'd assume his list is more accurate in reflecting what native Coptic culture would be, as opposed the other, more classical-style Coptic list.
 

Jokolytic

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Looking forward to this! ^^
 

das

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Any chance of this being integrated with HIP? It does sound very interesting.
 

Five_X

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Any chance of this being integrated with HIP? It does sound very interesting.
I don't play nor do I really like HIP. It's up to them if they want to integrate this into their set of mods.
 

LumberKing

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Did you manage to "fix" the ecclesiology of the Miaphysite and the Nestorian faith from the Pentarchy model to the Petrine See model?
 

Five_X

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Did you manage to "fix" the ecclesiology of the Miaphysite and the Nestorian faith from the Pentarchy model to the Petrine See model?
No, that can't be done. In landed_titles.txt there are tags for each See of the Pentarchy, but there's no way to customize which See governs which religion. So any religion with a Pentarchy uses the same five, unfortunately.
 

LumberKing

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No, that can't be done. In landed_titles.txt there are tags for each See of the Pentarchy, but there's no way to customize which See governs which religion. So any religion with a Pentarchy uses the same five, unfortunately.
Well, that sucks... I wonder if there is a way to replicate an additional "Pentarchy"? Though this will probably involve modding the hell out of the define.lua file, if they even have it there.