Backstory?

[Alfryd]

Well, Lunord has been axed from the divine lineup. I know that what actually happened here is that a gameplay decision was made (6 temples = 2 upgrades each for 3 base classes,) and backstory was invented to compensate, but I'm still a little leery of possible explanations- If the Gods aren't really hostile, or see eachother as 'complementary opposites', then I don't see why Helia and Lunord would be exceptions to the rule, or suddenly reverse that position. If self-preservation is a problem, again, I don't see why that would suddenly change- "I don't like your temper" seems a pretty lame excuse for open war. (It also begs the question of how Krolm has survived for millennia with no allies and 6 enemies.)

Look, here's (I think) a more plausible scenario: We know that in the wake of the Six Winters' War, the Helian kingdoms were destroyed in the war with Garuta, and we know that the Solarii were actually immigrants from outside Ardania. This argues strongly that Helia's faith was actually driven extinct within Ardania itself- and then saw a resurgence in more recent times as worshippers from foreign lands reintroduced Her religion. You will also notice that solarii can spank adepts seven ways 'til sunday- extrapolate that trend, and it's entirely likely the the Helian faith- dynamic, expansionist and resurgent- eventually displaces the conservative, traditionalist church of Lunord from most of the continent.
So, fearing the disappearance of His own mortal followers, Lunord manifests as an Avatar in a last-ditch effort to stem the tide of conversion, revive His waning church, and wage physical war upon Helia's followers. Helia (naturally) retaliates, and since Lunord has manifested physically on the material plane, He can therefore be destroyed or crippled. Anyways- in that scenario, although Lunord technically strikes first, it's a move provoked by larger, observable social/political changes over time.

Personally, I always reckoned Krolm's followers were more likely to kick the bucket...

 

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Personally, I always reckoned Krolm's followers were more likely to kick the bucket...

Are you kidding? They are the peak candidates for evolution!

--

On another note. Why do gods always have to 'die' I mean, they are GODS, so therefor it stands to reason that they would be very hard to kill, even by another of their..nature. Why can't Lunlord be away vacationing in the Milky Way for a few Centuries and Adepts are down to the few who hold faith in his return, or something of the like?

Here's the gist of the backstory of the setting I'm working on (on the divine level, anyway); Gods are really the embodiment of everything, they are the very fabric of magic, nature, and humanity. They do not actually fight each other, in fact they work together to watch over humanity, as the entire universe is really just no more than a growing tumour to a larger entity..which is in turn trying to squash existence however it can, but being mutated and improved from this entity, it is forced to 'play by our rules' so to speak as its power means nothing to our universe. These gods cannot be killed because they are bound to the very existence of life itself, and so, in place of being killed, they have been hunted down and sealed in remote locations to perpetually quell/drain their power as much as possible. This is a work in progress and an extreme overview, but you get the idea.

 

[Alfryd]

This is a work in progress and an extreme overview, but you get the idea.

Sounds interesting, and I had been toying with a similar notion for the ardanian Gods (since they seem to be directly tied to relatively 'primal' concepts.) I'm also fond of the theory that Gods are tied to human worshippers or belief in some form, though it's hardly the most original theory...

Why can't Lunlord be away vacationing in the Milky Way for a few Centuries and Adepts are down to the few who hold faith in his return, or something of the like?

Well, there have been precedents- Krolm was apparently out of action for centuries after his rumble with the dragon king.

I realise this is just a minor detail, and I'm sure the overall storyline will be fine anyways, but it's fun to speculate...

 

[Draxynnic]

Well, my idea about gods generally not trying to kill each other due to the results of such an attempt being unpredictable isn't exactly original - a lot of pantheons in D&D worlds have similar justifications. Of course, those do tend to result in gods dying and being replaced occasionally, but they also have larger pantheons, which means more gods and more chances that one of those gods will gun for another.

As for why... it could be that the event was triggered by something that happened on the mortal realm, or on the immortal realm. Your suggestion that it might have happened due to the renewal of the Helian religion is a good one - Lunord may have felt Helia was already defeated, but when her church sprang once more from the ashes he may have decided that no amount of suppressing Helia's mortal followers would suffice and that more direct means were necessary. Alternatively, it could simply have been something that Lunord had been pondering and working himself up to since the two first started quarreling, and the time he did it was simply the time when he decided to try doing it, and nothing else.

Of course, it's possible that there are limited periods in which gods can be killed, either simply based on time or due to some event (it would be telling if the fight happened around the time the last human king was defeated by the devil lord...).

Regarding Krolm: It could be that Krolm is sufficiently more powerful than the other gods that he could afford to stand on his own without allies (at least as long as the younger gods continued quarreling among themselves). Or maybe, as I suggested in the original discussion, on the whole, while the gods have disagreements they (generally) don't actually want to kill each other, including Krolm and his descendants. In fact, there's another consideration as to why Lunord lost - maybe the other gods ganged up on him when they realised he was actually trying to kill Helia?

Of course, another question is just how dead is he? Gods have a tendency not to rest peacefully...

 

[Spiderman]

On another note. Why do gods always have to 'die' I mean, they are GODS, so therefor it stands to reason that they would be very hard to kill, even by another of their..nature.

I assume you're talking about other settings? But here in Majesty, it took, what, six centuries for Lunord to die, so that's pretty long...

And "gods" is a relative term, depending on the settings... not all gods are equal in power, despite the term. I personally think "gods" merely means not dying from a long "lifespan" and having power greater than a "mortal" (meaning one DOES die from a natural lifespan) and that's it.

 

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I assume you're talking about other settings? But here in Majesty, it took, what, six centuries for Lunord to die, so that's pretty long...

I was speaking in general, yes. And 'god' is a broad topic. I mean look at all the variation of godship even in traditional mythos. I'm quite fond of the Greek mythos personally, I like the human nature attributed to the gods and their extremely jaded nature.

 

[Nerdfish]

Lunord might be taking a break and letting things slack for a while :rofl:

 

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Lunord might be taking a break and letting things slack for a while :rofl:

Hey, who says a god can't be lazy?

 

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I personally found all temples were inferior to Krolm and Krypta, and then the shapeshifters and healers came in second place.

 

[Alfryd]

Are you kidding? They are the peak candidates for evolution!

Possibly, but that would imply becoming something non-barbarian-like... which hasn't really happened.

Regarding Krolm: It could be that Krolm is sufficiently more powerful than the other gods that he could afford to stand on his own without allies (at least as long as the younger gods continued quarreling among themselves).

These are all possibilities, but extraordinary events require equally compelling explanations, and I'm not at all certain that's been forthcoming: We're talking about the effective demise of one of Ardania's oldest religions, and that doesn't just happen overnight on a whim- even the whim of a God.

I personally found all temples were inferior to Krolm and Krypta, and then the shapeshifters and healers came in second place.

This really depends a lot on the map and force pattern you're talking about. Krolm works well on some maps but not others. Krypta/Fervus give you reasonable defences early and cheaply but have a high mortality rate, while high-level monks/paladins/healers are almost indestructable and dominate the late game. Multiplayer games favoured dauros/agrela heavily.