Interesting thing with a b5 mod would be to have such wildly different tech levels without it being unbalanced. The Minbari should be able to roll over any of the other non-fallen empires.
Babylon 5 civs
- Thread starter Christopholes
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Not really, since it's likely very easy to program them to avoid declaring offensive wars against others unless they're seriously annoyed. Kind of like a fallen empire, themselves. But not quite yet.
The Vorlons and the Shadows aren't Fallen, though (at least not until the ending, and then *spoilers*). They're quite active in enforcing their ethos.
By contrast, the Centauri are Fallen, despite being less technologically advanced than the Vorlons and Shadows - see Londo Mellari's comment on how they're open nine to five, Earth time. Worse, they're a Fallen Empire without a guiding fanatical ethos, slowly slipping into oblivion. The Centauri's new expansionist phase (with Shadow help, but still) is an example of what happens when a Fallen Empire re-emerges onto the galactic scene.
By contrast, the Centauri are Fallen, despite being less technologically advanced than the Vorlons and Shadows - see Londo Mellari's comment on how they're open nine to five, Earth time. Worse, they're a Fallen Empire without a guiding fanatical ethos, slowly slipping into oblivion. The Centauri's new expansionist phase (with Shadow help, but still) is an example of what happens when a Fallen Empire re-emerges onto the galactic scene.
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You're taking it too literally here. The Centauri experienced what we all experienced sometimes playing a Paradox game, expanding fast, facing rebellions and then desintegration. While Vorlons and Shadows don't fit the description of a Fallen Empire excactly, the Centauri aren't even in proximity.
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The Narn were beating the stuffing out of the Centauri until Londo got help from the Shadows.
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What about: Drazi, Brakiri, Gaim, Drakh (Shadow Vasall?), Yolu, Vree, Abbai, Hyach, Pak´mara, Kirishiac Lords, Torvalu, Mindrider, Walkers of Sigma 957, The Triad, Technomages ?
putting my 2 coins in.
but Centauri are almost on the same power base as minbari but are stupid weaken by their government type.
*Autocracy*
minbari are not really describe as government more like Council which do not really fit in this game.
*Authoritarian Democracy*
Narn look to me like a type of military government
*Stratocrazy*
Shadows/vorlons
No clue to little details
but Centauri are almost on the same power base as minbari but are stupid weaken by their government type.
*Autocracy*
minbari are not really describe as government more like Council which do not really fit in this game.
*Authoritarian Democracy*
Narn look to me like a type of military government
*Stratocrazy*
Shadows/vorlons
No clue to little details
I don't know the exact game terminology, but the Vorlons are radical authoritarian spiritualists, while the shadows are radical individualists.
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I disagree with changing Minbari from Venerable to Enduring+Quick Learners. There does seem to be some confusion as to the lifespan of Minbari, but aside from the actual quotes they behave like their leadership grow very old and very Wise - Venerable by definition and mechanics. But Venerable/Enduring can be debated.
But Quick Learners just because they learn languages easily? (Ok and Lennier puts that motorcycle together impressively fast, but I'd argue he's no average Minbari.) If anything they are pretty stagnant technologically - plus not really that interested in learning anything new.
But great work on that list!
But Quick Learners just because they learn languages easily? (Ok and Lennier puts that motorcycle together impressively fast, but I'd argue he's no average Minbari.) If anything they are pretty stagnant technologically - plus not really that interested in learning anything new.
But great work on that list!
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Perhaps, but this means also putting on more negative traits on the Minbari. Instead, two positive traits work very well for them.
Quick learners has nothing to do with research - it's the ability for your leaders to learn and level up. Lennier is an attache, and he shows the ability to learn things so quickly (just as Delenn was selected as an apprentice by Dukhat in the past) that he could make a great leader one day.
Compare Minbari leaders to the Narn, Centauri, for instance, and you can see that they clearly have a history of good leadership.
They show good capacity to learn from their mistakes, unlike for instance, the Narn, which decide to keep their blood feud going until the very end of their existence. Minbari, on the other hand, learned to forgive the humans, and ended their bloody war. They also seem interested in learning new things from other cultures (such as Lennier researching about motorcycle culture and fixing up the old bike), different values and traditions, in order to better perfect themselves and their spirituality.
Now hold on there - they're not necessarily Xenophile (as they tended to also avoid making contact with lesser civilizations). I remember that the Minbari themselves think that they were too xenophobic before meeting the humans, and changed their ways in order to avoid a bloody war due to another misunderstanding - again, very open minded of them to do so.
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I want to read this thread very badly. But... how bad are the spoilers. I'm on season Three.
I accept the argument, but I'm not convinced. Delenn is shown as plenty foolish when younger - does she really learn faster than intelligent/gifted leaders of the other races? You compare to the Narn, but I'd argue it's the Narn who is the outlier here if anything. Also are the Narn really slower to learn (G'Kar comes to mind) or are they just hung up on a few special points (mainly the Centauri for pretty good reason).
You hold up the Minbari forgiving the humans, but they really don't. The council almost commits Xenocide over the loss of a few lives, and the only reason they don't finish it is because of the amazing revelation they get from capturing Sinclair that basically force their hand. We see plenty of Minbari - even Gray Council - that has most certainly not forgiven the humans throughout the series.
Now maybe it's better from a game mechanic perspective than Venerable+2 negatives, if we have to force a false equivalency between races to fit them in character creation, but I still don't like it.
***SPOILERS***
The only reason the Minbari didn't wipe out Earth was because Delenn (on Kosh's advice) had them abduct Sinclair ('The future points to itself'). Since the triluminary was configured for Valen's DNA and Sinclair was Valen before he travelled back to the past, the Grey Council believed that Minbari souls were being reborn in human bodies - Minbari do not kill Minbari.
And all of this was kept hidden from the general population until more than a decade later (assuming they were ever told at all). The only reason most Minbari don't hate humans is because they trust the Grey Council's decision implicitly (Understanding is not required, only obedience). And even then, many in the Warrior caste rejected the surrender order (the Trigati) and others resented it (Neroon).
The only reason the Minbari didn't wipe out Earth was because Delenn (on Kosh's advice) had them abduct Sinclair ('The future points to itself'). Since the triluminary was configured for Valen's DNA and Sinclair was Valen before he travelled back to the past, the Grey Council believed that Minbari souls were being reborn in human bodies - Minbari do not kill Minbari.
And all of this was kept hidden from the general population until more than a decade later (assuming they were ever told at all). The only reason most Minbari don't hate humans is because they trust the Grey Council's decision implicitly (Understanding is not required, only obedience). And even then, many in the Warrior caste rejected the surrender order (the Trigati) and others resented it (Neroon).
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Admittedly it's been a long time since I read the books, so long that I can't remember which B5 book it was. But I do remember in one of the books G'Kar mentioned that the First Circle was filled by the Narn Royal family. Also there was nothing remotely democratic about the Kha'ri, G'Kar was had to find sponsor to get promoted to the next circle, so somewhere between an autocracy and an oligarchy