oh and maybe better to stop calling other races strong and instead put weak and slow learning on humans (it took many more thousand years for humans to exit the bronze age) 
Babylon 5 civs
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oh and maybe better to stop calling other races strong and instead put weak and slow learning on humans (it took many more thousand years for humans to exit the bronze age)
That simply doesn't work.
Humans were incredibly adaptive and rapidly cought up with the other powers to the point that Earth Force could have challenged the Centauri militarily, before, and far more so after, the Earth-Minbari war.
I do think collectivist should be in there, because slavery is a big thing for them, within their own species and for slave races as well. I'd drop the xenophile in favour of a level of collectivist.
The Minbari learned about the existence of humans through their "other trading partners" including the Centauri, and they are involved in a number of different trade disputes and negotiations during the run of Babylon 5, so I agree with this. The Minbari may be isolationists (Some Xenophobia is evident) but they are not a fallen Empire. Especially seeing as they present one of only two major advances in warship technology during the run of the show.
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Humans couldn't have challenged the Centauri militarily. Captain Sheridan states outright that the humans couldn't even have stood up to the Narn in Season 2. Centauri warships were far more advanced and far more powerful than Earth ships of the time period. (Consider how unmaneuverable still-rotating Earth ships were and how vulnerable they would have been against the Centauri.) Babylon 5 defeats a Centauri vessel thanks to having been extremely heavily armed, the Centauri vessel not deploying fighter escorts, and targeting many targets at once, instead of focusing on one.
That said we were adaptive, and were militarily one of the "stronger" races, compared with any single member of the league of non-aligned worlds.
Season 2 Episode 15 'And now for a word'. I can't remember if he specifically mentions the Narn, but he definitely mentions every other major race. Even in 'The Lost Tales', which takes place in 2271, Sheridan is given a vision by Galen with the Centauri destroying Earth in 2301 (including a scene with the Centauri wrecking an Earth Alliance Fleet). In 2258, EA could have posed a threat to the Centauri, but not before the Earth-Minbari War (the only reason Earth Weapons were as advanced as they were by 2258 was because Earth bought Centauri weapons through the Narn),
The Centauri are pretty advanced. Of the various races shown only they and the Minbari have the gravitic drives which is a big advantage.
If you're referring to the ambush in 'In the Beginning' where the Entil'zha is killed while meeting Sheridan, Franklin and G'Kar, those were Londo's orders with no input from the Minbari. Londo was trying to make sure Earth got no Centauri tech from the occupation of Narn which could cause the Minbari to suspect the Centauri were arming Earth (potentially leading to the Centauri being the Minbari's next target). The Minbari intelligence branch had nothing to do with that ambush.
Ah, I forgot who performed the attack. There is a scene where Delenn is made aware of the event before it happens though and dismisses it as of no significant consequence so they still knew about it.
when the avalanche has already started its too late for the pebbles to vote.
We are all Kosh
Vorlons and Shadows are both fallen empires. The other first one remnants would just be anomalies.
All the other empires are normal empires but at different stages. if B5 was a 4x game the Mimbari would be clearly winning, followed by the Centari the Earth then the poor old Narn. Mimbari have reach a plateau but have by no means fallen. The Centari had the equivalent of a civ golden age about 100 years ago but during the show have the equivalent of a CK2 ruler with really really terrible traits, but they are not fallen either.
We are all Kosh
Vorlons and Shadows are both fallen empires. The other first one remnants would just be anomalies.
All the other empires are normal empires but at different stages. if B5 was a 4x game the Mimbari would be clearly winning, followed by the Centari the Earth then the poor old Narn. Mimbari have reach a plateau but have by no means fallen. The Centari had the equivalent of a civ golden age about 100 years ago but during the show have the equivalent of a CK2 ruler with really really terrible traits, but they are not fallen either.
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I totally agree. When we get more specifics of how the modding works, and how much control we have over the AI, technology, etc I think we can make a great mod that feels like Babylon 5 in scale. Fallen empires and scripted events I think really add so much possibility.
My only caution would be to try and avoid such a rigid adherence to the universe and its rules. We won't be able to get everything, exactly, correct but I think we can get very close.
I brought this up in the Babylon 5 mod thread but have we considered making a group so that we can better coordinate our efforts?
Perhaps dependent on the era you're looking at.
The cool thing about Babylon 5 is that nobody is a stereotype. Nobody is one dimensional.
One moment I loved Londo, hated G'Kar (painted as obvious bad guy in Season 1), next moment I love G'Kar, hate Londo (Season 2).
Then I liked the Vorlons, hated the Shadows, ended up scared of the Vorlons (Season 3).
Then the humans were dickheads (Season 4).
I ended up feeling sad for the Centauri too... (Season 5).
It's all pretty fluid, and that's the best part about it!
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I updated my list as such:
- Humans are now Weak, but still Resilient. Minbari and Centauri "Strong" traits removed, whilst the Narn keep theirs for being the strongest.
- Minbari now correctly have "Venerable", in exchange for Slow Breeders and Sedentary negative traits (which suit them fine). I mean, some of them live for more than 500 years, which is insane compared to other races.
- Centauri are now Enduring rather than Strong, as they do tend to live longer than Humans on average. Are now Militarist-Materialist-Collectivists rather than Militarist-Materialist-Xenophile, to reflect their feudalism and acceptance of slavery.
- Narn are now Fanatic Militarists-Spiritualists instead of Collectivist-Militarists-Spiritualists. To simulate their conformism, I gave them "Conformists" trait as that suits them better, since they weren't actually Collectivist due to their wish for freedom from slavery. They are also Slow Learners, due to their historic lack of strong or well-known leaders, and inability to learn from past mistakes by starting more wars and provoking the Centauri. Narn homeworld is Tropical, not Jungle.
- Vorlon Homeworld is definitely Gaian, whilst the Shadows homeworld is definitely a Tomb World (rather than Barren). Didn't know much about these at the time.
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Actually its said in the season 4 final that the oldest Mimbari was 140 Earth Years so maybe just Enduring.
There must be some sort of conflicting information. The range is somewhere between 200-600 years, because they can live about 120 Minbari cycles, which are longer than Earth years.
And 500 years isn't the norm, it's the exception (Similar to how 120 is a lot for a human, but still possible).
Sounds like a religious oligarchy that then rotates between military junta, etc. Each caste has its own government and the federation is bringing the castes together so they stop fighting.
This is based of mentions in episodes (I just watched them the other week as i am watching it for the first time). Delenn is mentioned to have finished Religious training 10 years before being appointed to the Grey Council, though this would be in Mimbari years, still this indicates she is very young.
Another 15 Earth years pass before the start of the show where it can be assumed she is around 40 years of age (also the age of the actress around that time) as in the Season 4 final during the segment 100 Earth years into the future she is said to be 140 and looking very old, her age can be considered unusual because they do say that the oldest Mimbari live normally to around 120, hell even several characters in the scene state that they think she has been dead for decades.
There are other things that hint towards Mimbari having shorter life spans such as the whole fewer Mimbari souls being reborn, and those being so being lesser ones, it can be guessed that the Religious Caste would not be declaring this if only 3-5 generations had occurred since the time of Valen.(But that is just a guess, they might notice very quickly, who knows)
Though i do agree with you that there is allot of conflicting information when it comes to life spans and dates, Lennir when he first arrives says something about having served for 200 years and Delenn once made a comment that was something along the lines of 'not even if i live to a 1001' which can be assumed to be similar to the saying about living to 101. So there is always the possibility that the information i am basing my statement off can be false also.
Delenn became a genetically altered Minbari-Human hybrid, so likely she lived long for a human, but short for a Minbari... I'll have to rewatch some stuff myself, because I think Lennier mentioned that he was around 90 years old in Season 1 or 2, and he's definitely younger than Delenn at that time...
For the sake of avoiding opening up potential plot-holes (from over analyzing this) I'm going to change them back to Enduring + Quick Learners and remove their negative traits... They're definitely quick to pick up languages if I recall correctly.
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Here is a chronology of Babylon 5 with notes regarding the Minbari cycles:
http://rockermouse.com/b5chronology.html
http://rockermouse.com/b5chronology.html
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