Babylon 5 civs

[Christopholes]

So I've seen talk of some mods but what about ethics/govs/traits?

We know the Vorlans and probably Shadows are Fallen Empires but what about everyone else?

 

[Atlantians]

So I've seen talk of some mods but what about ethics/govs/traits?

We know the Vorlans and probably Shadows are Fallen Empires but what about everyone else?

The Minbari are somewhere between a fallen empire and a regular empire.

 

[General Karthos]

Government Types:

The Earth Alliance is a Representative Democracy that turns into a Military Dictatorship in the course of the show.

The Centauri Republic is a Despotic Empire.

The Narn Regime is either an Indirect Democracy or an Oligarchy (it's not clear how that Kha'Ri's first circle is elected.)

The Minbari Federation actually has a single leader who can override the Grey Council... but I honestly can't see what government they fit best with.

Both the Vorlons and Shadows are fallen Empires, and we have no real understanding of their underlying government structure. The same applies to MOST of the non-aligned worlds. We have some clues about the Drazi Freehold, but not enough to give a very educated guess, except that their government is prone to serious corruption.

We know that the Hayach are a Gerontocracy, ruled by a "Council of Elders", with the oldest of them the head of their government.

There are suggestions that the Gaim are a hive mind or semi-hive mind ruled by "Queens", although "May the Queens bless you" is used, so that may actually be a religious term.

I do have some ideas on Ethos, but I'll want to put together a longer/larger post for that.

 

[Jamey]

The Minbari should probably be a Theocratic Oligarchy.

The Centauri should be a Falling Empire which received a boost from an endgame event to make them great again.

 

[Christopholes]

Narn feel very oligarchy-ish to me.

 

[Pyriel]

Weren't the Drazi very militaristic in their culture?

 

[Bob_Herzog]

Pew.

For a Babylon 5 mod one could certainly alter some of the stuff so that it fits better. I.e. I could see the Mimbari as Spiritulaist, Militaristic and Collectivists (but without slavery) that would cover the aspect of the three castes quite well. But it would limit their choice of goverment, should collectivist remain a blocker for everything but autocracies. And I see the Mimbari more in the Oligarchie (meritocracy) corner.

Earth, Narn and Centauri are hard nuts since all of them change a lot during the show.

For the Centauri that seems to be natural since the form of goverment seems to depend very much on the current balance of power. Strong emperor = autocratic phase, weak emperor = oligarchic (aristrocatic) phase. A bit like Rome during the phase when it was yet unclear whether the republic will be transformed or not (and in fact even later the senate and power of many families lived on). At least the trait decadent is a given with them ...

Earth would be materialists, individualist and militarist for the pre Clark phase with indirecte democracy as goverment. With Clark in charge (fanatic)-xenophobe and (fanatic) militarist military junta.

For the Narn it only makes sence to talk about the unoccupied goverment. That seems to be a straight meriocratic goverment where one has to earn rank and slowly work through the system. The problem is I don't see the Narn as pacifists (at least not anymore when the show starts) but Bureaucracy might fit the bill. Otherwise a militaristic republic might be a good fit too.

I'm not up to speed for the smaller species so no input there. But ultematley a B5 mod certainly should look into changeing the ethos and goverment system so that it fits what is needed. At least when stull like a simple block doen't allow to use a certain combination that would make sence in the B5 verse.

 

[Christopholes]

I believe oligarchy is valid for non-fanatic collectivist/individualist empires.

 

[Angelic_Daemon]

Can't the gov't types be switched with events at appropriate times? I've had several EU4 campaigns where I was presented with switching to a government that I liked and so.easy that I didn't.

That fact that the show has fluid ruling models works well with the game machanics seen in a Paradox title.

 

[Fipse]

The Centauri should be a Falling Empire which received a boost from an endgame event to make them great again.

No way. The Centauri maybe a power of the past (recent past) but they are way weaker then the Mimbari. More powerful the humans, yes, but Mimbari are at least 1000 years beyond all the other races.

 

[Twogs]

The Minbari should probably be a Theocratic Oligarchy.

Only one third (even less so after Delenn) of the ruling council are from the religious caste. So net really theocratic.

 

[Bob_Herzog]

Only one third (even less so after Delenn) of the ruling council are from the religious caste. So net really theocratic.

I thought so too. But if we have to the options the main games offers us as we know about them currently all Oligarchic goverment forms seem to have the same problem (only one specific group is highlighted). But the Mimbari are certainly not a Military Junta (they might have become one had the warrior caste won but they did not). The exsistence of the military case alone excludes pacifism as ethos, and materialistic doesn't fit the Mimbari either. In the end the Mimbari from all castes are rather spiritualistic so since I think a rule by the elite (chosen through their merits by their castes) the only Oligarchic goverment that remains and roughly fits it the spiritualistic one.

Maybe more leaning towards plutocratic after Delenn changed the composition. But even the workers don't strike me as wealth driven but more workeing for the common good.

 

[Christopholes]

I'd put Minbari in the theocratic oligarchy simply because the pre warrior caste Grey Council members we see were all religious caste. Spiritualist, arguably militarist and collectivist what with their caste system and Understanding is not required only obedience.

 

[IronFish]

Only one third (even less so after Delenn) of the ruling council are from the religious caste. So net really theocratic.

I would argue that while not a de-jure religious bodies, the warrior caste and arguably the worker caste can still be viewed as a part of a theocratic oligarchy.
While praying is the role of the religious caste, from what we have seen the military caste is also centered around faith and rituals.

It is, in my opinion, more similar to a militant holy order than to a military junta.
We have seen less of the workers, but from what we have seen they also abide by the Minbari religion and rituals.

For the ethos of the Minbari civilization I would choose : Spiritualist, Collectivist, Xenophobe.
Of course, different pops would have different ethoses.

Warrior: Militarist, Spiritualist, Xenophobe
Religious: Fanatic Spiritualist, Collectivist
Worker: Spiritualist, Collectivist, and either another pick in Collectivist or Pacifist

 

[WolfStark]

The Centauri should be a Falling Empire which received a boost from an endgame event to make them great again.

The main property of a Fallen Empire is not that they declined in power but that they are static. They don't research, they don't interact (well except for very occasional diplomacy), they are pretty much sleeping. The Centauri are very active in politics, their ships are flying everywhere, they have lost influence but that's it, they are far from sleeping.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

Weren't the Drazi very militaristic in their culture?

culturally, yeah. But government-wise, they're a weird indirect democracy. Literally all they vote on is the 'officials,' who are a randomly selected out of a bag.

 

[Pyriel]

culturally, yeah. But government-wise, they're a weird indirect democracy. Literally all they vote on is the 'officials,' who are a randomly selected out of a bag.

Oh yeah the red vs green thing.
It's been a while since I saw the series.

 

[IronFish]

Oh yeah the red vs green thing.
It's been a while since I saw the series.

Purple vs. Green, to be precise.

 

[Bolshevik_1924]

Purple vs. Green, to be precise.

He who takes purple is purple and follows purple leader.

He who takes green, is green and follows green leader.

They fight, until there is one!

There is no other way human.

 

[REDDQ]

The funniest thing was that everyone could join as rules were made before meeting other civilizations.