Aztecs -- I called it!

[kal56]

Every popular football club here in Europe has "Ultra" fans who are much like the traditionalist CK2 fans here... they're passionate about their hobby, and take it far too seriously, but they're the ones who put in the extra effort to create a thriving community and the proper atmosphere.

It would be sad if all the CK2 players were just "casual" fans who bought CK2 for the zombies / star wars DLCs and didn't care about history.

I don't see this as a grab for casual gamers. It seems like something Paradox thought would be fun after all the mod forums are full of alt-history scenarios and those are designed by hardcore fans.

As for the thriving community with the "proper" atmosphere my favorite thing about the Paradox forums is that (relative to the rest of the internet) it's generally pretty civil in here. People disagree but you don't see the flame wars or the over-dramatic threads you see for other games. Personally I don't want the type of atmosphere you see in most sports clubs forums.

Also I like how you use argument by exaggeration talking about zombies/star wars (pure fantasy) and don't even mention the DLC in question Aztecs (alt history). I understand why some people are don't like the DLC, I tend to be against complete sandbox approach to these games but this reaction from a lot of people is melodramatic. Why can't paradox have some fun every now and then? I prefer my games historical but I'll play mods that feature alt-history scenarios or even fantasy in the case of Game of Thrones.

 

[Pelarys]

What? Does are the dumbest complaints I've ever read, even if people can't be bothered to realise that the devs did this for fun and that it took no development time from actuals expansions, I don't see anyone being so bitchy about a completely optional 5$ dlc.

 

[Effixel]

Well, my first reaction was kind of "WTF Paradox??!!". And then, I started thinking about it:
-as many people pointed out, it is a DLC so we're not forced to use Aztecs in our game. If I don't like the idea I don't buy the DLC.
-According to developpers themselves, it was developped for fun during their free time, to release a bit the stress. No harm done to the developpement of major DLCs then.
-It is meant to be a fun DLC. Its only purpose is to be funny.

I understand that some people want to give it a try, for fun, to make a change from the usual western europe medieval thing. It can also offer a new challenge to players: invasion from the West. Quite a change of strategy for Ireland I believe.

As for me I'm not going to buy this DLC, as the reason why I love CK2 is that I can write alternative history using the mechanics that were in use during the medieval period. Aztecs could have never been in Europe at any point in history, so it doesn't make sense to me. So yep, good job Paradox, this DLC goes along well with your name!

 

[kal56]

I haven't heard a worse idea for a game come out of a game studio before. A game with a fan base consisting of weird, hardcore history nerds having a fantasy expansion about Aztecs invading Europe (of all possible fantasy scenarios)?

Then clearly you don't play a lot of games. I get that you don't like this and that's fine but you're being melodramatic about it.

Also if you go the mod sections of any Paradox game you'll find plenty of odd alt historic or downright fantasy mods so clearly some of us nerds must enjoy them.

 

[Nuril]

Also if you go the mod sections of any Paradox game you'll find plenty of odd alt historic or downright fantasy mods so clearly so of us nerd must enjoy them.

As a maker of such I am also decidedly against messing with the unmodded game to do so. Don't use us as an argument.

And the Aztek DLC is clearly pure fantasy, not "Alt History" as you claimed. There is no possible logical path for it to work. It's no "What if Maximinus Daia had not hoped to defeat Licenius through defection and politics at Tzirallum, but just crushed him with superior force and emerged victorious?" which could've plausibly changed all of history.

 

[kal56]

As a maker of such I am also decidedly against messing with the unmodded game to do so. Don't use us as an argument.

I'm glad to meet the person who speaks for the whole mod community.

This a DLC that is not required to run the game and as far as we know now makes no changes to the game play if you don't run it. It was stated that this was something the developers did for a little bit of fun. Why can you make mods for fun but the staff of Paradox is not afforded the same courtesy.

 

[gja102]

I have to admit I thought this DLC was a terrible idea until I read Valinn's original concept - that a western invasion would serve a fun gameplay purpose, meaning nowhere on the map would be safe. You cannot pre-plan or let yourself get complacent.

However this only really works if it IS unpredictable - i.e. the player doesn't know if they'll face Mongols, or Aztecs, or both, or neither.

Do we know if there will be a 'randomised' element to this DLC? (I can't face reading the 30+ pages of complaints on the announcement thread to see if it's stated there)

 

[Theddude]

The sense of entitlement is overwhelming.

"Paradox should do this, Paradox should do that!",

CK2 is finished, done, dusted. The game was effectively finished at release ( which is nice) so quite frankly the whole " Wah I wanted Vikings!" attitude makes members of the community look childish.

Not really, people are offering to pay for DLC which will presumably net Paradox a profit. Paradox isn't making these out of charity and the fans aren't buying them (the major ones at least) out of loyalty or charity either. The fans want something they will pay for, and if enough people want it and will pay for it, Paradox will make it and profit from it. I get the sense (not trying to be insulting or anything) that your a traditionalist on games i.e. once they're done they're done? I understand the stance but I don't agree with it, I think games can be improved with DLC and both developer and gamer can be happy.

On the one hand, I want Paradox to do well, so I don't want this to be a disaster or anything, I want them to make a profit. The thing is, if it's wildly successful, we (the traditional historical fans) will have to put up with ever increasing amounts of non-plausible (my attempt to sound neutral on what it is) content in the future. I'm guessing some people are worrying that these amazing historical games are going the way of the History Channel, where as we all know it's actually newsworthy when they actually make shows about history.

I hope historical games stay historical, I just don't really know what else I can say other than I completely and fundamentally opposed to this idea and this will be the first DLC I will not buy. I hope everybody gets what they want without too much damage being done.

 

[Nuril]

I'm glad to meet the person who speaks for the whole mod community.

1) Better than having someone speak for us who isn't even one of us.

2) I literally never said that anywhere, so you're just lying to be evasive.

Much like how if someone says "But I have a gay acquaintance X who likes Y" and someone says "Please don't generalize and use us to make a point" doesn't mean they also claim to speak for X.

This a DLC that is not required to run the game and as far as we know now makes no changes to the game play if you don't run it. It was stated that this was something the developers did for a little bit of fun. Why can you make mods for fun but the staff of Paradox is not afforded the same courtesy.

Arguing against a position I did not take. It being a shitty idea doesn't equate to "They have no right to make silly content". Like I said in response to a guy sarcastically suggesting a Call of Cthulu DLC with Sanity as a stat: I'd love that. It'd be fun, clearly in jest and not making a mockery of any real cultures.

 

[grumphie]

The thing is, if it's wildly successful, we (the traditional historical fans) will have to put up with ever increasing amounts of non-plausible (my attempt to sound neutral on what it is) content in the future. I'm guessing some people are worrying that these amazing historical games are going the way of the History Channel, where as we all know it's actually newsworthy when they actually make shows about history.

I hope historical games stay historical, I just don't really know what else I can say other than I completely and fundamentally opposed to this idea and this will be the first DLC I will not buy. I hope everybody gets what they want without too much damage being done.

this sums up about my feeling ont he DLC. who agrees?

 

[AJ2009]

Oh no Azetcs, really! where are the European Pagans :sad:

 

[AJ2009]

this sums up about my feeling ont he DLC. who agrees?

+1

Edit: I've changed my mind it might be fun and you can always not buy it or turn if off

 

[NezzeOne]

Not really, people are offering to pay for DLC which will presumably net Paradox a profit. Paradox isn't making these out of charity and the fans aren't buying them (the major ones at least) out of loyalty or charity either. The fans want something they will pay for, and if enough people want it and will pay for it, Paradox will make it and profit from it. I get the sense (not trying to be insulting or anything) that your a traditionalist on games i.e. once they're done they're done? I understand the stance but I don't agree with it, I think games can be improved with DLC and both developer and gamer can be happy.

On the one hand, I want Paradox to do well, so I don't want this to be a disaster or anything, I want them to make a profit. The thing is, if it's wildly successful, we (the traditional historical fans) will have to put up with ever increasing amounts of non-plausible (my attempt to sound neutral on what it is) content in the future. I'm guessing some people are worrying that these amazing historical games are going the way of the History Channel, where as we all know it's actually newsworthy when they actually make shows about history.

I hope historical games stay historical, I just don't really know what else I can say other than I completely and fundamentally opposed to this idea and this will be the first DLC I will not buy. I hope everybody gets what they want without too much damage being done.

I wouldn't expect any additional fantasy DLC, to be perfectly honest. Paradox has a past history of introducing horrendously impossible or anachronistic stuff into their games as a gag (e.g. Babylon and Byzantium in Victoria 2.)

The only difference is that this one costs money, and if you think about it, that's actually -better- for the people that don't want their historical game diluted by non-historical things.

 

[Nuril]

this sums up about my feeling ont he DLC. who agrees?

Indeed. "History Channel" = QED.

Another gem in that vein of Network Decay:

 

[Jak9090]

i rememeber you suggestiing this, and laughing away at the feeble premise, however it is now like the zombie apocolypse has hit and my wife and child have been murderd, i'm all alobne, starving and dying, wasting away with dysentary....anything is possible in this dangerous new world.

 

[WankoStankins]

Sunset Invasion is the "Honey Boo Boo Chile" of Paradox.

 

[Theddude]

I wouldn't expect any additional fantasy DLC, to be perfectly honest. Paradox has a past history of introducing horrendously impossible or anachronistic stuff into their games as a gag (e.g. Babylon and Byzantium in Victoria 2.)

The only difference is that this one costs money, and if you think about it, that's actually -better- for the people that don't want their historical game diluted by non-historical things.

Yes, but Babylon and Byzantium were more like easter eggs, this is quite a bit bigger. I see what you're saying, doesn't mean nobody's going to worry if this thing does well. :unsure:

 

[kal56]

1) Better than having someone speak for us who isn't even one of us.

2) I literally never said that anywhere, so you're just lying to be evasive.

1. I never said I was speaking for the mod community I said there were an abundance of mods with a variety of scenarios so clearly there was some market for non historical content.
"Also if you go the mod sections of any Paradox game you'll find plenty of odd alt historic or downright fantasy mods so clearly some of us nerds must enjoy them."
That is my quote nowhere in it do I say anything about the opinion of modders themselves only that people enjoy playing said mods. In this case you are the one lying to be evasive.

2.You said "Don't use us as an argument." Using "us" instead of "me" means you are speaking on behalf of all not yourself.

 

[Pelarys]

Damn you must really hate the devs for making something fun for them once in a while, truly they should never drift from what they are expected to do as that would be an unacceptable behavior.

 

[Nuril]

1. I never said I was speaking for the mod community I said there were an abundance of mods with a variety of scenarios so clearly there was some market for non historical content.
"Also if you go the mod sections of any Paradox game you'll find plenty of odd alt historic or downright fantasy mods so clearly some of us nerds must enjoy them."
That is my quote nowhere in it do I say anything about the opinion of modders themselves only that people enjoy playing said mods. In this case you are the one lying to be evasive.

2.You said "Don't use us as an argument." Using "us" instead of "me" means you are speaking on behalf of all not yourself.

Deliberately cutting off most of the post and claims not to be evasive?

Stay classy. How about you actually bother with the rest of the "didn't end up there by accident"-text. Should help clear that up.