Aztecs are hilariously crap

[unmerged(237533)]

I fired up CKII with sunset invasion, eagerly relishing the thought of the tide of blood and chocolate about to swamp western Europe. Not wanting to wait start the game in 1250 and play as western Duke in the HRE, figuring it will buy me a few years before the Aztec tide reaches me. When the Aztecs do turn up, with a couple of 60k doomstacks, I assume they will be knocking on my door soon enough. Not so. They manage to lose about 50,000 men taking Galicia and Cornwall. Oh yes, those fabled nations, vast and wealthy. And they are defeated within 5 years by the efforts of Europe's foremost power: Devon. Really? That was the terrifying apocalyptic DLC I just bought? Not impressed paradox, so far all you have managed to do is model what would actually happen if the Aztecs invaded.

 

[ryanfarrell]

In my game(Georgia) they landed in Ireland and England and have taken all of Brittania, as well as Norway and Sweden. One Crusade was launched but was taken out easily. Only played one game with Sunset on though.

 

[Sam L]

It's just for a little fun. I prefer it this way. This way there are no "Aztec Empires" in Europe at 1453 when I convert my game to EU IV.

 

[NezzeOne]

I imagine that it's subject to variance -- just like everything else in this game.

 

[theKing1988]

I imagine that it's subject to variance -- just like everything else in this game.

This! And never forget it.

 

[Frozen_Predator]

They took all of Iberia in my game before stalemating to the Jihads called on them. When the last Jihad ended my Frisian armies had fully recovered from the invasion of Portugal and I was ready to reclaim my lost lands.

despite having been driven into central/eastern Iberia they still hold on, a faction war saw a reversal of the French gains in Iberia and the Aztecs have dug in quite nicely.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

I imagine that it's subject to variance -- just like everything else in this game.

Yep, it's similar to Mongol invasion. Sometimes it can destroy almost all resistance and other times it fails completely.

 

[Nyrael]

I fired up CKII with sunset invasion, eagerly relishing the thought of the tide of blood and chocolate about to swamp western Europe. Not wanting to wait start the game in 1250 and play as western Duke in the HRE, figuring it will buy me a few years before the Aztec tide reaches me. When the Aztecs do turn up, with a couple of 60k doomstacks, I assume they will be knocking on my door soon enough. Not so. They manage to lose about 50,000 men taking Galicia and Cornwall. Oh yes, those fabled nations, vast and wealthy. And they are defeated within 5 years by the efforts of Europe's foremost power: Devon. Really? That was the terrifying apocalyptic DLC I just bought? Not impressed paradox, so far all you have managed to do is model what would actually happen if the Aztecs invaded.

You had bad (or good) luck.
From what I have seen from me and other people, Aztec invasions don't always end the same way: their accomplishments can range from failing miserably to conquering two de-jure Empires.

Honestly, I find it more fun this way: there is nothing more dull than every event ending the same way.

 

[MasterOfGrey]

I just hope when they show up in mine it's not my de jure Empire the conquer.

 

[Comradebot]

I fired up CKII with sunset invasion, eagerly relishing the thought of the tide of blood and chocolate about to swamp western Europe. Not wanting to wait start the game in 1250 and play as western Duke in the HRE, figuring it will buy me a few years before the Aztec tide reaches me. When the Aztecs do turn up, with a couple of 60k doomstacks, I assume they will be knocking on my door soon enough. Not so. They manage to lose about 50,000 men taking Galicia and Cornwall. Oh yes, those fabled nations, vast and wealthy. And they are defeated within 5 years by the efforts of Europe's foremost power: Devon. Really? That was the terrifying apocalyptic DLC I just bought? Not impressed paradox, so far all you have managed to do is model what would actually happen if the Aztecs invaded.

So you had a single game where the Aztecs didn't overrun all of Western Europe?

Yup, that's clear evidence that they're severely under-powered and incapable of being a genuine threat.

 

[Tufto]

Does anyone have any experiences where the Aztecs have overrun all of Western Europe, though?

 

[PerciXal]

Not impressed paradox, so far all you have managed to do is model what would actually happen if the Aztecs invaded.

That made me laugh quite a bit. Though you should probably play a few more games before you rant.

 

[Nyrael]

Does anyone have any experiences where the Aztecs have overrun all of Western Europe, though?

They seem to be doing well here

 

[PureBeef]

They seem to be doing well here

I don't think I've ever seen the HRE be reduced that small before.

 

[name_here]

In my HRE test game with them they looked to be on track to sweep Spain and Britain and even after having invaded Portugal and Scotland and starting in on Andulusia they gave me a solid fight despite me having prepped over forty retinues, majority knights. Granted, that was partially because travel time forced me to march my levies in four seperate groups and their doomstack obliterated one of them, but it was still fierce. However, I also tried swapping to control them, and their long-term prognosis was not good even before I smashed them. Problems:

1. There's only a couple nonreinforcing doomstacks, which obviously won't last forever, and they aren't a super unit type like horse archers.
2. Unlike the Mongols, the area they arrive in is a different religious group. That means they either eat conquered: different religion or eat infidel relations penalties. Either way the conquered areas are between useless and counterproductive for decades, which is a problem when the doomstacks run out.
3. They don't have any special mass conversion powers, they don't have many courtiers, and the combined culture+infidel relations penalties are too high to demand landed vassals convert en masse.
4. This is probably just my game, but the Emperor was celibate.

Fixes:
1. can stay if the others are fixed, I guess, but there's a whole Aztec Empire on the other side of the ocean. Ideally they'd have a strong vasslized merc contingent that's not tied to a specific province to represent that
2. Not a problem if 3 is fixed
3. There should really be a "ordered everyone to convert to their blasphemous gods and ripped out the hearts of those who refused to comply" event/decision. Convert the province to Aztec and apply a substantial "Large chunks of the population had their hearts ripped out recently" penalty. Ideally a total penalty of -70% between that and cultural to everything once the basic recently conquered penalty is gone.
4. Make this not happen. Also, create wives and children for the Aztec leadership.

 

[unmerged(147169)]

Yep, it's similar to Mongol invasion. Sometimes it can destroy almost all resistance and other times it fails completely.

but if I had to guess, it's easier for the mongols due to the provinces in the far east being kinda terrible and those nations being a lot more fragile than france/england/ whoever's in hispania.

 

[Comradebot]

but if I had to guess, it's easier for the mongols due to the provinces in the far east being kinda terrible and those nations being a lot more fragile than france/england/ whoever's in hispania.

Very good point. The Ilkhanate can blob like crazy, because there's a good chance they'll hit a fractured Persia, and the Golden Horde can very well arrive in an Eastern Europe where the Cumans and Russians are still fragmented and bickering with one another and steam roll both. Of course, in my current game they bypassed a powerful Cumania by hitting a small smattering of independent chiefs in Perm, and used them to launch themselves right into Russia, which was split into two only moderately powerful kingdoms (Rus and Georgia... yes, Southern Russia/Ruthenia was the Kingdom of Georgia, which was bizarre and awesome). They became quite the blob themselves until the drew the ire of the Pope and got hit with four Crusades.

Meanwhile, the Timurids arrived and (despite my best efforts) ran right into a still terrifying Ilkhanate. The Timurids snagged Khiva, but their attempt to take Persia was completely disastrous, most of their army got wiped, and now they're spending most of their time trying to fend off Cuman High Chiefs. Cause the Cumans? Still going strong in 1390. Don't think I've ever seen them survive, let alone remain one of the more powerful forces on the map.

 

[NezzeOne]

I don't think I've ever seen the HRE be reduced that small before.

I've seen the actual HRE title dissolved before. Words cannot describe the beauty of a fragmented Empire.

 

[Deaghaidh]

2. Unlike the Mongols, the area they arrive in is a different religious group. That means they either eat conquered: different religion or eat infidel relations penalties. Either way the conquered areas are between useless and counterproductive for decades, which is a problem when the doomstacks run out.
.

Typo, or is mass cannibalism a feature of these Aztecs?

Fix #3 is unrealistic, even by Sunset Invasion standards. Even when roles were reversed, Spaniards weren't in a position to methodically slaughter on that scale. They force-converted, yes, but if you kill everyone, there's noone left to work or supply meatshields for your army. If anything that would be extra true for Aztecs. If anything, the wrong religion penalty should be bigger for the Aztecs, though perhaps some conversion events would make sense.

#4 is iffy. Again, when things went the other way, few Spaniards brought wives and kids until well after the initial conquest. Much more conquest was intermarriage and/or rape of native women. No particular reason this wouldn't be true of Aztecs in America.

 

[Sarenarass]

There is one major flaw with Sunset Invasion... its goal was to bring a Pagan threat to Western Europe. Now Western and Eastern Europe tremble!... but what about Central Europe? Have we forgotten about them?

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: The next DLC: Tides of Blood.
The ancient vikings rise out of their crypts and graves to wreak havoc upon the Catholic heathens who have betrayed their Norse roots...


MANY new features such as:

Dead vikings spawning out of nowhere in many key Nordic areas and former homelands...
Watch in horror as the undead menace attempt to recreate a new empire of darkness...
Tremble before them as they convert Europe to the Nordic religion by the axe.


I think it sounds amazing. Now we only need a way to get Italy and all of Europe shall have a reason to fear... begin brainstorming, my friends. I must rest now.