Aztec Cultural Building?

[stormblind]

After more testing, I've had the Aztec's spawn, and I wanted to see what the Aztec cultural building is. So I used Character Creator to make an Aztec, and after selecting one of the territories I own, I discovered the Aztecs don't have a racial cultural building, which honestly could contribute to their severe falling off towards the later games as well.

It was honestly a fair bit disappointing that they don't have any racial buildings at all, and quite surprising. I had suspected that they would have a light infantry boosting / "archer" building to simulate their sling throwers / javelin throwers.

 

[Grubnessul]

Or their Jaguar warriors. IIRC Spanish soldiers described an Aztec infantry charge to be as fearsome as an artillery bombardment.

 

[Ols]

Fearsome, but seeing as they're still effectively light infantry with crude weaponry, the actual effectiveness of such a charge against war hardened veterans would be minimal.

 

[MasterOfGrey]

A battle is largely psychological. Don't underestimate the effect of a merely 'fearsome' force.

 

[Darkgamma]

Crude weaponry that could decapitate a horse in a single stroke and javelin throwers. Oh how minimal

 

[victorero]

well, they were minimal enough to lose thousands of men against an army of 500, led by Cortez....

 

[Wezqu]

well, they were minimal enough to lose thousands of men against an army of 500, led by Cortez....

Who had a lot of indian allies helping him.

 

[Gurkhal]

well, they were minimal enough to lose thousands of men against an army of 500, led by Cortez....

Mostly Spanish propaganda that seems to exclude the fact that the Spanish had loads of Indians who did most of the fighting. Now Spanish probably had an advantage in single combat due to their weaponry but it wasn't so large as some people makes it out to be.

 

[Frozen_Predator]

Mostly Spanish propaganda that seems to exclude the fact that the Spanish had loads of Indians who did most of the fighting. Now Spanish probably had an advantage in single combat due to their weaponry but it wasn't so large as some people makes it out to be.

this, the Aztecs pretty much ruined things for themselves by pissing off everyone and their mothers.

 

[gornard]

Crude weaponry that could decapitate a horse in a single stroke and javelin throwers. Oh how minimal

I believe the Macuahuitl was only used amongst warrior elites, so it wouldn't have been a common weapon. There are no surviving examples. And although obsidian is incredibly sharp its also fragile, theres no way you could parry a European steel sword for example and expect it to keep its edge, its likely it would break whatever segment it hit. It would also have little benefit against armour or chainmail. As a stone and wood weapon it was exceptional but it still would have been crude by medieval european standards.

That said i agree with gurkhal in that the advantage given to technological advantage is often overstated.

 

[Kaiser Ludwig]

That said i agree with gurkhal in that the advantage given to technological advantage is often overstated.

I disagree in general terms with this; with enough technological advantage such a disparity could have been (easily) surmounted. I do agree that the warfare technology level was not far enough away to account for the whole overwhelmingly outnumbered scenario.

 

[Darkgamma]

Had the Triple Alliance not decided to go around and steal people to slice them apart, the Aztecs would've done well against Cortez and his conquistadors - with the death of Cortez, the Spanish authority in Cuba would see nothing beyond trading with the Aztecs. Aztecs survive for a little while, as Spain is essentially fighting against a good chunk of Europe.

The Aztecs coming to Europe in the 13th century would require unobtainium, though.
Aztec tactics were incredibly sophisticated, mind you!

 

[Gqarz]

well, they were minimal enough to lose thousands of men against an army of 500, led by Cortez....

Cortez got his keister handed to him by the Tlaxcalan people whom he then allied with to campaign against the Aztecs. Corez's men were assisted by over 3000 Tlaxcalans for his campaigns. Disease, specifically smallpox, probably spread during Cortez's stay in Tenochtitlan, did most of the work of subduing the Aztec people. It is estimated that the disease killed or incapacitated between 33% and 70% of the population between 1519 and 1521. The warriors garrisoned in the city were the hardest hit as they were the ones who interacted most with the Spanish. There were a couple times where the Aztecs came close to killing Cortes through force of numbers and surprise. The technological differences between the Aztecs and Spanish were mainly due to lack of metalworking knowledge on the Aztec side. Obsidian, which is what was used frequently in Aztec weaponry, is among the sharpest substances known to man. Its downfall is that it is very brittle. When it hits metal, it shatters.

The Aztecs were remarkably advanced socially and culturally compared to the Spanish. There really wasn't much of a technology gap at all between the two peoples, just no iron in central and southern Mexico.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

How the hell did the Spanish and Mesoamericans learn to communicate with one another so quickly?

 

[Darkgamma]

The Spanish didn't just magically conjure themselves to America :laugh:
There were probably some who went to Mesoamerica previously, or Mesoamericans that visited Cuba.

 

[The Dondarrion]

How the hell did the Spanish and Mesoamericans learn to communicate with one another so quickly?

Cortes had a priest who could speak both Spanish and Mayan. Soon after landing, he acquired a local servant girl who could speak both Mayan and Nahuatl. So essentially Cortes and the Aztecs were able to speak to each other through two layers of interpreters.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

How the hell did the Spanish and Mesoamericans learn to communicate with one another so quickly?

A shipwrecked Spaniard learned Mayan, who could speak to a Nahua woman enslaved by the Mayans, who could speak to Aztecs (who spoke Nahua, along with the Tlaxcalans and the majority of central Mexico). Eventually that woman learned Spanish and communicated directly with Cortez, in addition to bearing him a child or two.

 

[grisamentum]

Had the Triple Alliance not decided to go around and steal people to slice them apart, the Aztecs would've done well against Cortez and his conquistadors - with the death of Cortez, the Spanish authority in Cuba would see nothing beyond trading with the Aztecs. Aztecs survive for a little while, as Spain is essentially fighting against a good chunk of Europe.

The Aztecs coming to Europe in the 13th century would require unobtainium, though.
Aztec tactics were incredibly sophisticated, mind you!

or, you know, viking longships...

 

[Hackworthy]

I don't understand this feeling of Aztec superiority. I grant that the Aztecs would crush European/Arabic peasant militia but Christian/Muslim knights would OBLITERATE the Aztecs. An army of half-naked infantry doesn't stand a chance against armored, horseback-mounted professionals. And all that not to mention horseback archers/javelineers of Iberia and the Maghreb.

 

[Grubnessul]

So, before this thread turns into the same cesspit as the one at the EU4 forum, this is what we need:

Source: The Internet