Aztec Codex Weekly Hub

[Patriarch of Bub]

Quick update: I'm moving house. It will take me a bit more to do the #2 publication. Sorry if disappointed

Aztec Codex Weekly Hub​

Welcome to the Hub of the project. The project will consist of a weekly publication on the fascinating Aztec culture, which you can expect to read on the forum every (mostly) Sunday, starting from next Sunday.

From this Hub you will be able to access all the publications made as well as links to other secondary threads on the topic.

The first publication next week will make heavy use of the (untranslated) "Historia General de las Cosas de Nueva Espana" by Brother Bernardino de Sahagún also known as the "Codex Florentino". You will be able to find that and any other source used, at the end of each publication's thread.

Our study of the Aztecs will therefore start with the study of their religion and mythology, as it was Brother Bernardino's belief, that to better convert the Aztecs he should first understand their gods.

The 2 pictures here present are the note to the reader by the author and the first among the many illustration present in the book, portraying some of the Aztec Pantheon.

I hope with this project to share my interest with other lovers of history which are abundant here on the forums.

Current Links:​

Aztec Great work: discussion/suggestion on the current great work, and proposals for improvements/mods.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/aztec-pyramid.1180589/#post-25489824

Aztec Codex Weekly Publications: Stay updated on the more current news. Check here to see if a publication received an update, date and content of original + update.

#1 (2nd of June 2019): on gods and sacrifice. (to be update with pictures, greater details and accuracy)
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/aztec-codex-weekly-1.1184934/

 

[sreckom92]

Awesome!

 

[Castios]

Is that an attempt to make sunset invasion dlc more popular?

But in all seriousness, cool idea.

 

[Patriarch of Bub]

Awesome!

Thank you! <3

Is that an attempt to make sunset invasion dlc more popular?

But in all seriousness, cool idea.

Ahah, in a way yes. I'm doing this for 2 reasons. First is personal interest and sharing it. I hope to gain a few readers.

Secondly i look forward, after learning some serious modding, to present Paradox with a full update for Sunset Invasion, complete with art, background, new mechanics, cultures and societies based on Sunset invasion.

And if that won't happen then I'll turn it into a mod.

Bear in mind, I'm doing this in my spare time. :3

 

[sreckom92]

Thank you! <3

My knowledge of Aztecs is lackluster at best.
Would love to hear more about them, so I'll be following this thread for sure.

 

[Enriador]

Fascinating initiative! CK2's Aztecs are alt-history but I appreciate how they provide a glimpse into Native American culture & traditions.

Makes me wish Aztecs didn't convert away so easily, but rather had the same resistance to conversion as Romuva Pagans. They have a unique faith with unique mechanics that ought to resist Catholic missionaries for longer.

 

[DerRitter]

God how I wish the Aztecs or other non-mayans mesoamericans had invented or adapted some kind of writing system. The Nahuatl codices were written after the europeans arrival and in many cases contradict each other when it comes to historical retelling, seemingly they were made by natives as a way to get the Spanish to recognize their claim to some kind of noble native lineage (frequently they retold the ancestry of dynasties). Thus our understanding of accurate precolumbian mesoamerican political history is rather limited and in many cases almost based on legendary accounts. On the mayans' side we have some writing but even then it's also limited information.

 

[Kazanov]

Its Bernardino of Sahagun, not Sahagu'n.

He was born in the town of Sahagun on Spain. His true name was Bernardo de Rivera.

Anyways, i love to read books in old spanish, I feel that these colonial writers were so humble and close (my hobby consist on read primary sources about inca, mapuche and mayan culture)...for example, on the second image, the author compare the aztec deities with the ones from the greco roman pantheon, so he compares Huitzilopochtli (Vitzilobuchtli on the text), with Hercules (he plainly says that he is "other hercules".) and Tezcatlipoca with Jupiter (other jupiter), Sahagun is like a kid describing what he saw on the local museum, so his work has some innocence attached to it.

The most notable thing about his work its the relevance that still has.

The most sad thing about most precolumbian cultures, its that we dont have many accounts written by the natives themselves (most of them were burned by the conquerors), so nearly everything its understood and explained from the perspective of the other, the foreigner, the enemy.

Thanks for sharing this, good project.

God how I wish the Aztecs or other non-mayans mesoamericans had invented or adapted some kind of writing system. The Nahuatl codices were written after the europeans arrival and in many cases contradict each other when it comes to historical retelling, seemingly they were made by natives as a way to get the Spanish to recognize their claim to some kind of noble native lineage (frequently they retold the ancestry of dynasties). Thus our understanding of accurate precolumbian mesoamerican political history is rather limited and in many cases almost based on legendary accounts. On the mayans' side we have some writing but even then it's also limited information.

The inca had their Quipus, but we lost the knowledge to completely undestand them, most of the records kept by the Incas were destroyed by the spaniards and even if the use of them continued to this day after the persecution they faced, lots of records were lost.

 

[Patriarch of Bub]

Its Bernardino of Sahagun, not Sahagu'n.

He was born in the town of Sahagun on Spain. His true name was Bernardo de Rivera.

Anyways, i love to read books in old spanish, I feel that these colonial writers were so humble and close (my hobby consist on read primary sources about inca, mapuche and mayan culture)...for example, on the second image, the author compare the aztec deities with the ones from the greco roman pantheon, so he compares Huitzilopochtli (Vitzilobuchtli on the text), with Hercules (he plainly says that he is "other hercules".) and Tezcatlipoca with Jupiter (other jupiter), Sahagun is like a kid describing what he saw on the local museum, so his work has some innocence attached to it.

The most notable thing about his work its the relevance that still has.

The most sad thing about most precolumbian cultures, its that we dont have many accounts written by the natives themselves (most of them were burned by the conquerors), so nearly everything its understood and explained from the perspective of the other, the foreigner, the enemy.

Thanks for sharing this, good project.



The inca had their Quipus, but we lost the knowledge to completely undestand them, most of the records kept by the Incas were destroyed by the spaniards and even if the use of them continued to this day after the persecution they faced, lots of records were lost.

Ah yes, very good point. It took me awhile (I'm not exactly tech savvy with phones) but I now have access to accented letters, so i will fix the town name in the first post.

I was discussing this topic with my friend who is an archeologist. He gave me some really good tips and info which I'll elaborate later.
Truly only few native codex have survived, and when looking at the European codex, one must be careful of the content and possible forgeries or hearsay passed as fact.

He did however reassured me of the relevance of the Codex Florentino.

When describing "other Hercules" and alike, it is curious to see how he was trying to allow either himself or us, the presumed Spanish reader, to understand their pantheon by adding some familiarity to it

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Thread moved to a more appropriate forum, since it isn't directly related to CKII.

 

[Karlingid]

Okay so people are talking about codices and the tragedies of those evil Spaniards destroying it all but generally speaking it's not always so simple. Here's a good answer as applied to the Library of Alexandria, a similar situation often thought as a decisively destructive moment. Meanwhile, here's a good response on why Mesoamerican culture and history isn't actually lost at all, and why the codices aren't nearly as important as people think they are. The same guy talks about how the momentum of Mesoamerican society wasn't so instantly destroyed just because of a little looting. To sum it up, While there was loss, " There's actually, according to the author of 1491, more mesoamerican written works with specific known authors then we we have works by ancient greeks"

It is good, friends, to remember precisely where we stand in all of this.

 

[Patriarch of Bub]

Okay so people are talking about codices and the tragedies of those evil Spaniards destroying it all but generally speaking it's not always so simple. Here's a good answer as applied to the Library of Alexandria, a similar situation often thought as a decisively destructive moment. Meanwhile, here's a good response on why Mesoamerican culture and history isn't actually lost at all, and why the codices aren't nearly as important as people think they are. The same guy talks about how the momentum of Mesoamerican society wasn't so instantly destroyed just because of a little looting. To sum it up, While there was loss, " There's actually, according to the author of 1491, more mesoamerican written works with specific known authors then we we have works by ancient greeks"

It is good, friends, to remember precisely where we stand in all of this.

Very informative, thank you!!

Rest assured, I wasn't try to demonise the Spaniards. A lot of "common knowledge" on Spanish colonialism is derived through centuries of the Leyenda Negra (Black Legend), a great anti-Spanish and anti-Catholic propagandistic movement brought forward by other nationalities, mainly the English. Unfortunately some stuff lingers on to this very day.
As a Catholic myself I had to go through some bs that was started as propaganda and has stayed much untouched in the English speaking world.
My archeologist friend on the other hand is Spanish, and could probably make a thesis on the Leyenda Negra.

This codex I'm reading is compiled with information collected from the Aztecs by a Spanish missionary, himself stating that the Aztecs, though considered barbaric, were quite a respectable society, maybe even ahead of some others who considered themselves at the top.

That said, my study won't focus on the Spanish conquest and colonization, but on Aztec society.

Though I'm aware there was a loss of codices and other documentations, I'm well aware that there is quite some material left to read, archeological evidence etc ...
In fact, it is the amount of material which encouraged me to start this.

Thanks again for your links! :3

Edit: weird wording

 

[Patriarch of Bub]

This is a quote from your second link.

"Thus, a focus on codices ignores the works of Spanish friars and Nahua scribes that created an encyclopedic work of ethnography like Sahagun's General History of the Things of New Spain, a multi-volume compendium covering everything from dynastic genealogy to religious rituals to medical practices to bean selling."

It mentions the exact codex I'm reading
Truly it is a fascinating book.