Aydin should be Greek culture.

[Simoleum]

The province of Aydin in the Ottoman Empire, roughly representing Ionia, should be Greek. This area was significantly Greek even up till the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, as seen in this map from 1919:

 

[Metroidkirby]

ethnological map from 1919, sure it's not biased in any way.

 

[Simoleum]

ethnological map from 1919, sure it's not biased in any way.

If you are insinuating that it somehow favors Greeks over Turks, you can easily see the large Turkish community in Greece proper, for example in Greek Macedonia and Thrace. If it had been biased all of modern Greece would have been a solid yellow color.

 

[talilu]

Timur destroyed the Greek population of Anatolia not long ago, thus no province had Greek majority in Western Anatolia. (Things are different at tthe Pontus region, given the protection of the mountains)

The population map you gave happened after migrations within Ottoman Empire. Greeks repopulated and became the majority in Izmir area long after 1444.

 

[Vincentst]

I agree, the map is too disputable. It is made by a Greek to say that a Turkish province should be Greek. On top of that the map was made at a time that Greece and Turkey were at war (source). You need more sources to justify your claim...

 

[Metroidkirby]

If it had been biased all of modern Greece would have been a solid yellow color.

It's not about this map, but about all maps regarding "ethnology" in the age of nationalism (from about 1830 to about 1950), I have seen dozens of those, their only sense is a political claim on some area because of "population", and why these "population" are in one group and not in the other one is more than disputable.

 

[Simoleum]

It's not about this map, but about all maps regarding "ethnology" in the age of nationalism (from about 1830 to about 1950), I have seen dozens of those, their only sense is a political claim on some area because of "population", and why these "population" are in one group and not in the other one is more than disputable.

Do you think many of these areas labelled "Greek" may be just Christian areas of various peoples, some of them Turks?

Timur destroyed the Greek population of Anatolia not long ago, thus no province had Greek majority in Western Anatolia. (Things are different at tthe Pontus region, given the protection of the mountains)

The population map you gave happened after migrations within Ottoman Empire. Greeks repopulated and became the majority in Izmir area long after 1444.

Here you can see in 1300, the area roughly consisting of Ionia is one of the last Anatolian areas under Byzantine control. It would be natural to assume that these areas would remain more Greek than other areas of Anatolia, even until well into the Ottoman area. If Trebizond remains Greek in EUIV, then surely this area should as well.

 

[talilu]

Do you think many of these areas labelled "Greek" may be just Christian areas of various peoples, some of them Turks?

Here you can see in 1300, the area roughly consisting of Ionia is one of the last Anatolian areas under Byzantine control. It would be natural to assume that these areas would remain more Greek than other areas of Anatolia, even until well into the Ottoman area. If Trebizond remains Greek in EUIV, then surely this area should as well.

But Timur attacked after the collapse of the Byzantine Empire... At the beginning of 15th century. Battle of Ankara happened in 1402, after Byzantines lost much of their holdings in Anatolia and also in Greece.

"After the Ankara victory, Timur's army ravaged Western Anatolia, with Muslim writers complaining that the Timurid army acted more like a horde of savages than that of a civilized conqueror.[citation needed]But Timur did besiege and take the city of Smyrna, a stronghold of the Christian Knights Hospitalers, thus he referred to himself as ghazi or "Warrior of Islam". A mass beheading was carried out in Smyrna by Timur's soldiers." from Wikipedia, Timur's page.

 

[Five_X]

Eh, I'd say that Aydin (along with a lot of other provinces in that area, don't even get me started) should be split in two: Aydin, and Smyrna, with the former being Turkish and the latter Greek. Similarly, Mentese should be cut in half, to create Mentese and Bodrum; the latter should in 1444 be Greek and owned by the Knights.

 

[Carlos_RSL]

Eh, I'd say that Aydin (along with a lot of other provinces in that area, don't even get me started) should be split in two: Aydin, and Smyrna, with the former being Turkish and the latter Greek. Similarly, Mentese should be cut in half, to create Mentese and Bodrum; the latter should in 1444 be Greek and owned by the Knights.

This would be a very unpopular suggestion to those who are against any new province in the ottoman regions

 

[Chamboozer]

The province of Aydin in the Ottoman Empire, roughly representing Ionia, should be Greek. This area was significantly Greek even up till the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, as seen in this map from 1919:

Like many before you, you're making the faulty assumption that the situation in the early twentieth century can be projected backward by half a millennium and still hold true. This isn't borne out by any evidence that I've ever seen. Ottoman survey data from the 16th century shows that the Greek Christian population was a small minority and the city of Smyrna, for which detailed studies have been carried out, is known to have had a Muslim majority throughout this period, until demographically transformed in the nineteenth century. For instance, in Merlijn Olnon's study of Köprülü public works in the city, he calculated that in 1657/8 Smyrna's population was about 94% Muslim, and only 3% Greek, with another 3% Jewish.

 

[Simoleum]

Like many before you, you're making the faulty assumption that the situation in the early twentieth century can be projected backward by half a millennium and still hold true. This isn't borne out by any evidence that I've ever seen. Ottoman survey data from the 16th century shows that the Greek Christian population was a small minority and the city of Smyrna, for which detailed studies have been carried out, is known to have had a Muslim majority throughout this period, until demographically transformed in the nineteenth century. For instance, in Merlijn Olnon's study of Köprülü public works in the city, he calculated that in 1657/8 Smyrna's population was about 94% Muslim, and only 3% Greek, with another 3% Jewish.

I find it hard to understand where the large Greek community would have come from if it hadnt been there to begin with. Especially since the Greek community in the Ottoman Empire was in steady decline ever since the Turkic conquest of Anatolia. Another map depicting religions in the Ottoman Empire in the 16th century is here:

 

[Vincentst]

This map at least in more helpful than the first one.

 

[Utretch]

I find it hard to understand where the large Greek community would have come from if it hadnt been there to begin with. Especially since the Greek community in the Ottoman Empire was in steady decline ever since the Turkic conquest of Anatolia. Another map depicting religions in the Ottoman Empire in the 16th century is here:

I do agree this is a more helpful map. To answer your question ethnicity is very flexible and non-binary. Lots of people moved to the western coast of Anatolia during the centuries of Ottoman rule, and what also should be noted is that some Turks became Orthodox, and some Greeks Muslim. Ottoman Millet maps only show religion without regards to ethnicity, which wasn't considered much within the Ottoman Empire before the rise of nationalism. This thread has discussed the various ethno-religious relations extensively.

 

[withche.07]

As I already mentioned in my post:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-anatolia-fixing-edirne-hüdavendigar.1008642/
Aydın currently represents Aydınoğulları beylik, so it cant be Greek right now.

So my suggestion was:
New Province 5: Smyrna (or İzmir/Suğla in Turkish)
7: Should be Aydın.

Ottoman map:

This was posted by someone other:

I don't know about 1444 in this matter, so I won't dictate anything. But if these maps are true and valid for 1444, I think new Smyrna province may get Greek culture. But accurate Aydın (which I tried to redraw) should stay Turkish.

Also Utretch is right. There is Orthodox Turkish beylik Dobruja in balkans which is not represented. because lack of sources etc.

Also this was posted there:

 

[Chamboozer]

I find it hard to understand where the large Greek community would have come from if it hadnt been there to begin with. Especially since the Greek community in the Ottoman Empire was in steady decline ever since the Turkic conquest of Anatolia.

That's an understandable assumption to make if you only have a cursory knowledge of the period, but no, it is too simplistic to assume that the population was being impacted by a single trend over the course of hundreds and hundreds of years of history. As Speros Vryonis pointed out in The Decline of Medieval Hellenism, the Ottoman conquest brought an end to many of the processes which had caused the Greek population to shrink, for instance by restoring the authority of the Church. But by that point, the Greek population of western Anatolia had already shrank into a tiny minority, as shown by the earliest Ottoman records. But during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries it started to grow again as Greeks migrated from other regions, particularly the Aegean islands, in response to economic trends and the growth of trade with Europe - Europeans were keen to use Greeks as clients when trading with the Ottomans, creating a great economic opportunity for people in the region, and further attracting more.

Another map depicting religions in the Ottoman Empire in the 16th century is here:

So... do you know who made this map and what sources it's based on, or did you just grab it from Wikipedia and trust that it was accurate? According to Wiki, this map was hand drawn by a random user who cites no sources. Please use caution and don't trust everything you see.

 

[Vincentst]

I did use caution in replying. I even found his CV and biography online. Its not just a random user. (source) (source).

Although he should have cited his sources off course. But still: how many maps do that on wiki... (To be clear: in my opinion they should)

I'm not saying that this map is the best in the world. But it is definitely more thrustworthy than the map in the OP.

 

[oim8]

You really shouldn't be using that map for reference to anything, there's a bunch of wonky stuff in it, like a heavily disputable "Macedonian Slav" self-identification group (which may or may not have really existed at the time) or what looks like a (non-existent outside of this map) Serbian minority in North-Western Bulgaria.

 

[Vincentst]

You really shouldn't be using that map for reference to anything, there's a bunch of wonky stuff in it, like a heavily disputable "Macedonian Slav" self-identification group (which may or may not have really existed at the time) or what looks like a (non-existent outside of this map) Serbian minority in North-Western Bulgaria.

I guess you're talking about the OP? I agree with you.

 

[Grand Historian]

This thread again?