Axis Strategies?

[unmerged(16020)]

Originally posted by GS_Guderian

3. DON`T ANNEX. Try to beat smaller countries without really killing troops and turn them around by puppeting. Only annex once in while to be able to deploy newly build troops there. Iraq for Japan is interesting

This depends on whether or not there are any tech sharing rules. If there aren't, and you can give constant techs, then always puppet if you can. Since you can make the puppet's troops equal to your own, they can massively boost your army.

However, if there are any tech sharing limits, this may not be such a good idea. Their troops may be worthless, and even though you get only 1/3 of the IC's, at least you are building GOOD troops with that third instead of the minor country which will be building infantry that might be able to handle a Soviet militia division.

 

[Michelangelo]

Originally posted by GS_Guderian


Looking back at how we won so fast I´d say:

Did Japan declare war as a democracy? If so, I'd say they would have a hard time taking that much territory with 40 dissent.

Instead, it sounds like you probably had Japan in the Axis immediately and then declared war with one of the Fascist nations. This certainly works but it is really a horrible exploit of the game.

If Japan is able to attack with no penalty in 1936, then there is no way the UK can defend alll of its overseas holdings and concentrate on France at the same time.

Furthermore, a democratic Japan in the Axis lowers US WE with every successful conquest. This is clearly an exploit of game mechanics. It is silly to think that the USA would be less likely to enter war because a "democratic" (ha!) Japan is taking over the world while in an alliance with other fascist world-domination seekers.

In other words, it is not possible for the Allies to hold out if Japan can attack the UK and USSR in 1936. They can only attack reasonably if they wait for the election in mid 1937 and elect right.

 

[unmerged(10155)]

re

Here is an almost sureshot strategy for Axis to defeat the USSR:
Ok, here it goes: How to defeat the Red Bear? Easy. The same way you kill a bear in real life: surround it and then deliver the coup de grace.
It's quite simple. There have to be 4 directions of attack:
1) Germany (+ other european puppets) from Poland and eastern Romania
2) Italy must prepare a fleet and deploy to the Black Sea, striking the "soft belly" in Crimea and moving up towards Kiev and east towards Stalingrad
3) Japan must mount a serious threat by deploying near Vladivostok and working its way westwards.
4) Finland should be played by a human and be given some transports and ships by the other nations so it can outflank the soviets from the north.
The soviets can't be everywhere and will ultimately be cut up and encircled. Ideally, the italians and the finns should link up in Moscow and keep the soviets on the border where they will cut off and grinded up by the germans, while the Japs wreak havoc in Siberia making sure time is not on Stalin's side.
The Russians should fold in about a year, but not before making a hell of a stand near the border. Time is of the essence since you still have the allies to beat.

 

[unmerged(12746)]

Re: re

Originally posted by Mihai Viteazul
Here is an almost sureshot strategy for Axis to defeat the USSR:
Ok, here it goes: How to defeat the Red Bear? Easy. The same way you kill a bear in real life: surround it and then deliver the coup de grace.
It's quite simple. There have to be 4 directions of attack:
1) Germany (+ other european puppets) from Poland and eastern Romania
2) Italy must prepare a fleet and deploy to the Black Sea, striking the "soft belly" in Crimea and moving up towards Kiev and east towards Stalingrad
3) Japan must mount a serious threat by deploying near Vladivostok and working its way westwards.
4) Finland should be played by a human and be given some transports and ships by the other nations so it can outflank the soviets from the north.
The soviets can't be everywhere and will ultimately be cut up and encircled. Ideally, the italians and the finns should link up in Moscow and keep the soviets on the border where they will cut off and grinded up by the germans, while the Japs wreak havoc in Siberia making sure time is not on Stalin's side.
The Russians should fold in about a year, but not before making a hell of a stand near the border. Time is of the essence since you still have the allies to beat.

Decent, most MP games wont have a person playing Finland though....

One major flaw in your "sure shot strategy"

The Allies

You didnt address them and although not a specific to an invasion of Russia, a factor in the deployment of forces for any Axis player.

Does your strat assume France has fallen? Does it assume the UK cannot make an amphib assault? Does it assume the MEd is controled by the Axis? Does it assume the U.S. is not in the war?

If I am the UK player the first thing I do is talk to the US player and coordinate strat, the second thing I do is talk to the Russians about if the Axis goes for barbarossa what I want in return for harrassing thier western front.

 

[unmerged(10155)]

re

Well, the actual context can look in a million different ways.
Ideally, though, the war should be declared BEFORE attacking the allies, keeping the war entry low. Perhaps the only problem is that without invading Poland Germany hasn't got a border with the USSR, but I'm guessing the USSR can be tricked in some cases to get greedy and take all of Poland.
If the allies are indeed at war with the axis, then this war should be launched later than sooner, making sure the Med is secure and that there are enough forces in France to hold off the allies until USSR falls.
Fewer german forces in the east won't matter much since when the invasion starts, the USSR player will scatter his forces anyway, trying to contain the various lines of advance.

 

[Janster]

hmm

Jap should not be able to join axis before its paternal to avoid exploit, but attacking the Russian bear in 36 is a very very very bad move...

I will tell you why..
He will start pumping vanilla inf divs that are almost as good as yours...from day 1 ...and you'll drown in them..

Germany having no tanks no nothing, will be unable to use anything but their inf to fight with, thus eating up all their MP in a short time...

All in all, your gamble will be on weather or not you can eat whole of Russia before 90 days pass, and he gets his first inf divs..

In addition to this, Jap can attack the SU behind, but there is just mountains and junk up there, my grandmother can beat any 36 assault off with an umbrella.

Janster

 

[unmerged(10155)]

re

Like I said, USSR should be attacked BEFORE attacking the Allies, WHENEVER that may be, wether it's 1st Jan 1939 or 1st Dec 1939 or 22nd of June 1941, the exact date is irrelevant. Of course a WWI style re-enactment of the campaign in Russia would be about the stupidest thing one could do in HoI, but I never mentioned the year "1936", did I?
As for Siberia... I doubt the soviet player will commit the necessary forces to keep the Japs from breaking out into the open taiga.

 

[Janster]

well

I've tested your idea in an MP game once, and found out that while attacking into Russia having the allies attack you in the west with France will make you dead realy quick.

Basically you're doing what I call stunts, to avoid the real battle at hand, hoping you can with some magic wave of your hand create a situation where you can win without fighting...

Such an idea against any experienced player is just annoying and little useful.

Janster

 

[TheDarkside]

Re: re

Originally posted by Mihai Viteazul
Like I said, USSR should be attacked BEFORE attacking the Allies, WHENEVER that may be, wether it's 1st Jan 1939 or 1st Dec 1939 or 22nd of June 1941, the exact date is irrelevant. Of course a WWI style re-enactment of the campaign in Russia would be about the stupidest thing one could do in HoI, but I never mentioned the year "1936", did I?
As for Siberia... I doubt the soviet player will commit the necessary forces to keep the Japs from breaking out into the open taiga.

These strategies vs. USSR are assuming a rather sloppy human player... as USSR playing vs. other humans I would actively defend my beaches. If it's one thing I can get plenty of, it's a surplus of vanilla INF to garrison the beaches. Japan should really never get a foothold in Siberia... *maybe* capture Vladivostok but once USSR have INF dug into the huge mountain provinces there is no hope for Japan to make an advance. And anyway by the time Japan would DoW I'd have a few Gornostrelkovayas (Mountain division) with an engineering brigade attatched in coastal forts and mountain forts. These guys won't let ANYTHIGN pass through siberia, and they are a cheap investment for USSR (8 IC). To leave provinces like Leningrad and Black Sea provinces unguarding is a sure sign of a lazy player.

 

[MegaPIMP]

the most important country to get rid of FAST is Luxembourg, when they start pumping militia you are so totally screwed!

 

[Janster]

luxembourg dilemma

If you leave them really a long time, they will actually field 2 divisions...leaving actually 1 to conquer germany and one to defend home.

This will result in the alternative WW2 where Luxembourg tries to eat SU while allies are confused

Janster

 

[unmerged(19009)]

Germany is the axis. Japan and Italy could stay neutral or even side with Soviet or England.

There are three different strategies for Germany:

A Western Strategy

An Eastern Strategy

A Southern Strategy



A Western Strategy involves an invasion of the British homeland after the fall of France. A successful invasion will more or less crush the allied war effort, even after US entry. The British production and resources will be a substantial add, and an eventual allied invasion in mainland Europe will be very difficult.

Production:

You need to build aircrafts and ships to manage a successful invasion; the number depends on level and mode (MP/SP). There are loopholes in the AI who could make an invasion easier.

Notes:

It would be useful to conquer Gibraltar before an invasion. This would hinder the British fleet in the Mediterranean form moving to the English Channel.

You need to convoy supplies and oil to England, and access to Norwegian and Spanish ports will counter an eventual British naval blockade in the Channel.



An Eastern Strategy involves attack Soviet after the fall of France. If you mange to crush the Russian war machine, victory is yours for sure.

Production:

You need a huge army, infantry and armour; the number depends on level and mode (MP/SP), but you should build units according to your strategy and preferred manoeuvres. Tactical Bombers will also be useful.

Notes:

You need to build a strong alliance in Eastern Europe, as many countries as possible. One of the most important questions is Rumania. Historically she will join the axis, but direct control with her oil could be preferable. An attack from a friendly Rumania would make much of Southern Russia Rumanian and not German. You will lose control with resources and industry.



A Southern Strategy involves turning towards North Africa and the Middle East after the fall of France. Even if you manage to conquer a large part of Asia and Africa, the game will not be settled, but you will have a lot of oil and rubber, and even increase your industrial capacity, before you attack England or Soviet.

Production:

You need a more varied production than in the other strategies. Armoured engineer brigades and tactical bombers will be a big advantage in areas with low infrastructure.

Note:

After building an alliance in the Balkans, you should drive your forces against Turkey and Iraq, and eventually hit Alexandria with to fronts; Germans from the east and Italians form the west. After conquering North Africa and the Middle East, you could turn against Persia and British India, eventually joining the Japanese forces. You need to keep alert in Europe and prepare for allied invasions, and worse, a Soviet attack. Build defensive structures!


I always go south!

Any Comments?

 

[unmerged(10155)]

re

Janster, TheDarkside, I was just pointing out lines of advance and the general strategy, not doctor Killpatient's cure-all.
Of course the italians would have to fight before securing the beaches, so would the germans on the main front, trying to break through the lines of defence along the rivers, if it sounded like a walk in the park, I want you guys to know I didn't mean it to sound like that.
About the japs... well, a bit of out-of-the-box creativity and a lot of supplies can solve the problem. First, though, the japs must have secured China, then thry can strike along the lenght (from Urals to Pacific) not the width of the siberian front (or is it the other way around? , who cares... you know what I mean ). This means the either the soviet player has some 15-20 mountain divisions (at least) in place along the *full* lenght of the Transsiberian(each of those higher infra provinces in Siberia), or risk having the japs slither through and break-out. And even then, with twice more supplies the japs can just advance towards modern-day Kazahstan further west. How are you going to guard every single province in Siberia? You don't. The USSR is practically defeated in this case.
Ironically, like Janster pointed out, the greatest threat are the allies not USSR. The allies can be a real pain in the butt, especially for Japan which is particularly vulnerable. The best solution to this is containment, buying time. Ironically, again, the challenge is not so much in defeating the USSR but in holding the allies back until the soviets fold.

 

[Janster]

yep

I am all for diffrent strategies, but the game is also a lot of anticipating your opponent, there are ways to gear for war..

for example
if the SU player gears for late war..and you hit him early..well..advantage to you..

If the SU player gears up for early war..and you hit him late..advantage for you.

Failure to reconize this will lead to problems, but a greater one is a powerful UK I think, usually if UK is hit hard, US can but aid the UK cause they too will be stretched thin, but if the UK can hold it's own..exepct 70+ us divs in france immediatly.

Janster

 

[MegaPIMP]

trying a northern strat is good to, take scandinavium(spelling?) including island and you have one flank secured pretty fast.(and a lot of steel).

 

[unmerged(10155)]

re

Yes, Janster, I agree that timing can factor up to 50-60% in the chances for victory.
About taking Scandinavia: yes it is an option, unfortunately the Axis has to move fast until it can cripple either the UK or USSR.
Yes, ideally:
1. The front would run from the Murmansk *all the way down* to the Caucasus (Turkey being conquered prior to this) and in the far east the japs are ready for action.
2.Minimal allied interference (the UK either defeated or having lost most of its manpower, US navy kept at bay)
About no.2, if you feel confident as Germany that the UK has weaker land tech, you can leave France unguarded on purpose and let the UK player stack up his armies. Let him advance. Keep a few screening infantry divisions behind to see which way he advances and strike him from any direction except his main thrust's direction. Your objective is to secure the ports he landed from and make sure he cannot evacuate. A good idea to "channel" or "guide" the thrust is to garrison heavily the Low Countries, maximizing the defense potential of rivers. Your main line of defence should be on the old franco-german border plus the low countries, while the rest of France will be defended through elastic defence with mobile units. Again, the trick here is to tempt him, make hime believe this is going to be easy as cake and wait for him to become overstretched, that's when you need to blitz towards his ports, if possible. If not, then hold on the aforementioned defense line.
Oh... one last thing. I'd like to know if these strategies really work on a more advanced opponent since my opponents are not that much of a challenge, don't be afraid to say things like "This is pure crap!Where do you come up with this!?!".

 

[unmerged(12746)]

A Russian Tip: In my MP games as the Axis one of the baramoeters for the russian player seems to be how they handle Romania. Often Romania is the pivotal nation in the game. Its been my expirence that when the Russian player moves in and annexes it intends on offensive when Germany moves against France. A pupetted Romania in my expirence means an additional buffer state and if the German player moves North through Poland Romania provides a gateway to souther Germany and cuts off the Balkans.

I always gauge the russian player and how they handle Romania, there are no guarantee's but certainly Romania is a pivitol nation one that can often be used as a gauge for the Russian game plan.

 

[MegaPIMP]

axis in south america then? argentina and maybe brazil that is any good tactics?

 

[unmerged(10155)]

re

Odin, that's indeed a great way of probing the enemy's intetions, much more relevant than Poland. But remember that Romania's oil means that it could be a bit more than a termometer.

 

[Vissarion]

Originally posted by MegaPIMP
axis in south america then? argentina and maybe brazil that is any good tactics?

In my experience a good UK player will annex Brazil/Argentina in a week. And they don't provide any good troops either, they need what they have to defend themselves.