Axis-member Poland shouldn't auto-cede Eastern land to USSR

[StanczykNYC]

Axis Poland would not have much power or say in what would go on. But as a signatory of the anti-Comintern pact and an ally of the new German Fascist regime, it would not let itself become a meal for the (Soviet) powers that be. It's also worth asking if Nazi Germany would have made its 'pact with the devil' if Poland had not been so hostile to the new European order in the first place.

I have lots of historical citations to make my case, but I'm aware such debates always degenerate into nothing, so I won't bring them up. Except to say, "I wanna play hidden Akuma-Fascist-Poland."

Please give Axis Poland a bit of wiggle-room with the Eastern territories. At the end of the day we are all Fascist anti-Comintern brothers-in-arms, right?

 

[Dalwin]

This complaint has been made since version 1.0. and I imagine in pre-release beta as well. I expect it is somewhere on page 5 of the to do list still.

 

[StanczykNYC]

Let's bump it.

 

[Sidetrack Nick]

I agree, it shouldn't be an auto-concession. Perhaps it is a game balance thing: where they don't want Germany to use Poland as a pawn to lure the Soviet Union into a war, where the Soviets are the aggressors. I admit, as a hindsight-is-20/20 German player, I often do everything I can to take territory while avoiding war. The Slovakia for Danzig deal is my friend.

This could be solved, however, by giving the Soviet Union other means to push their agendas on Europe.

 

[wildbillhdmax01]

Yea I just had a Game where I was Fascist and, in the Axis as Poland, and yet I still had Russia take half of Poland... I was also part of the anti-Comintern pact...

There should be checks to stop Germany from taking the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, and instead take Danzig for Slovakia, or even better yet at least pass Danzig or War to leave Poland alone. You know since we're both Fascist and, in the Axis!

I can't believe after this being reported many times It's still a problem.

 

[DoctorDanny]

I can't believe they still havent fixed this.

 

[Niko92]

It's not that weird that you have to cede Eastern Poland to Soviet Union even if you are on friendly terms with Germany. Romania gave territory to two Axis members and the Soviet Union, and they still joined the Axis.

Look at it from Germany's perspective: You either have a Poland with the Eastern part and an angry Soviet Union next door, or you give them a piece of Poland and you have a secure eastern border. Historically Germany had no trouble throwing other countries under the bus if it benefited them.

I agree on the point that if Poland and Germany are on friendly terms, it should be less likely for Germany to do the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, but it shouldn't block it.

 

[MichaelTheGhost]

Or the Baltic states puppets auto-cede themselves to the Soviet without my permission.

 

[Meglok]

I can't believe they still havent fixed this.

All it should take is a few exception lines in the Soviet focus tree to fix this.

 

[Meglok]

It's not that weird that you have to cede Eastern Poland to Soviet Union even if you are on friendly terms with Germany. Romania gave territory to two Axis members and the Soviet Union, and they still joined the Axis.

Look at it from Germany's perspective: You either have a Poland with the Eastern part and an angry Soviet Union next door, or you give them a piece of Poland and you have a secure eastern border. Historically Germany had no trouble throwing other countries under the bus if it benefited them.

I agree on the point that if Poland and Germany are on friendly terms, it should be less likely for Germany to do the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, but it shouldn't block it.

The problem is as a Polish player I should be able to refuse this. The whole point of the free DLC was to allow Poland to be played and then you have the Soviet NFs auto grabbing half of Poland without a fight or option to refuse and your Baltic allies as well. Several bug reports on this since release, no action taken by PDS @BjornB

 

[Evan05]

This whole problem boils down to if you think Germany was willing to sell out one of it's allies to their own benefit.

Considering how Fascist nations treated each other at the time, as well as Hitler's ambitions in the East and his attitude towards Poland essentially being a product of Versallies, it's harder to believe that Germany actually would've kept Poland around as their loyal friend.

 

[Niko92]

The problem is as a Polish player I should be able to refuse this. The whole point of the free DLC was to allow Poland to be played and then you have the Soviet NFs auto grabbing half of Poland without a fight or option to refuse and your Baltic allies as well. Several bug reports on this since release, no action taken by PDS @BjornB

But you can refuse it. Germany, as the leader of the Axis, made a pact with the Soviet Union. Then you joined the Axis and became Germany's bitch, so you do like Germany tells you to do. That's how factions work. If you don't want to be bossed around by Germany, don't swear allegiance to them.

If you're not happy with the borders, you can always declare war on the Soviets to get the land back. That's what the Germans did too. The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is just a temporary agreement.

 

[wildbillhdmax01]

The first problem is we're talking about it historically in an unhistorical game. 2nd game-play wise it kills the point of the DLC. 3rd of all, this never happen. Poland was never Fascist or in the Axis. So the idea that Germany would of never kept Poland around doesn't make any sense. We could go around this 100 different ways. Maybe Germany wanted to keep Poland as a shield, a border state, just as the Russians did, so it would be Poland that would have to suffer, and not the Germans if Russia attacked. Maybe they also wanted to use my 80 superior divisions(that the AI could never build themselves...) to help them against the communist scum!

Plain and simple this would of never happen in the real world, but that's the point. That's the point of the DLC, and that's the point of the game. To turn WW2 around, to shape and bend it to how you like. Don't get me wrong I want this game to be historically accurate, and plausible too. But once you turn Poland Fascist and join the Axis, you pretty much taken it off the rails there eh?

 

[BBBD316]

I would like to see Poland joining to increase the chances that the Germans go down the full Anti-Commintern tree rather than M-R pact that wouldn't offer anything.

Germany isn't going to war with Poland so no need to worry about that and the Soviets would have been happy to sit back and play the long game as they tried to do.

 

[npic]

The real root of all evil here is that diplomacy model isn't adequate enough in the game, so it relies on rather poorly designed and scripted events. We're trying to discuss diplomatic concepts that are just not reflected in the game in the first place.
I sincerely hope that one of the next DLCs will be heavily focused on diplomacy. Until then the whole game is just a railed world conquest simulator.