Axis Italy fleet strategy: Subs, ships or planes?

[kviiri]

I know many of us will be playing Italy first, and since Italy will probably be doing stuff overseas (at least in Africa) having a good fleet is of reasonable importance to them. On the other hand, assuming they stick to their historical pact with Germany against UK and France, they'll have to deal with a decisively more potent navy than their own.

So, what are you going to base your fleet around? Rule the seas with battleships, have a hybrid air/naval force with carriers or fight from behind with subs?

I think I'll personally start with the ambition to secure nothing more than the Mediterranean, and achieve local naval superiority there with planes, battleships and cruisers. Submarines to harry the British shipping around the Atlantic are a secondary focus, if securing the Mediterranean turns out well.

 

[Bob the Biro]

I think the hybrid of planes and ships would be most likely to be a success. It is highly unlikely that a player as Italy will have naval dominance over the UK however as the Med can be largely covered by Italian planes this may be enough to turn the tide of battle in Italy's favour in some of the engagements. Its that or make a push for Suez and Gibraltar early on and then not have to deal with the Royal Navy at all in the Med.

 

[Xerxes62]

I think a combined naval bombers/navy tactic would be succesfull. At least english and french navy together should be a hard enemy. So i would prefer naval bombers in that case (carriers seems to be too expensive). You can rule the roman lake with them and use your navy for smaller single battles and to secure your coastline. If france is beaten up quickly enough you can take Malta and Gibraltar from the brits which should be secure the Med for you. If you can manage to take over North africa then and block Suez canal it should be fine to take care of the med as just as you like. Thats so far my strategy for my first game which will be defenitly with italy

 

[Damiani]

Naval bombers are the way to go since Italy will never have a superior navy than the Allies can muster in the Mediterranean. Best idea would be to build up a Lvl. 10 air base on Sardinia and then bob the crap out of Marseilles and try and mop up the French fleet with your own fleet when they leave the port. AI is probably going to be sluggish to react, so a quick Italian victory over the French is not hard to achieve. Maintaining complete naval supremacy is impossible and not even necessary. Just make sure that you have enough motorized divisions in Libya before the war starts (or just abandon Ethiopia like you do in HOI3) and roll over Egypt and take the Suez and Middle East. Sure it might be difficult to take Gibraltar, but taking the ME is the real prize.

 

[puddingkip]

I will personally go for a large surface fleet without carriers. Italian focuses will be the Mediterranean. Since you can more or less plan when war starts (eiher declare or when you decide to join Germany) I think my plan would be to rush to the straits of Gibraltar to block British/French shipping. Hopefully get Spain in the Axis to be of help but if not use the troops I have stationed in Libya. Your surface fleet can hopefully keep the French Mediterranean fleet in check if you focussed on building it up from 1936 to allow you to transport goods and men across the sea freely to where they are needed most.

You + Germany + hopefully Spain should be able to (relatively) quickly occupy the southern French coast. With their supplies cut off by your fleet the Allied holdings in the Mediterranean such as Cyprus, Malta and Corsica should fall relatively quickly, especially if you manage to take more of the African coast with your army (let the Germans die for France). Best case scenario is you cutting off both strait of Gibraltar and Suez canal.

The reason I think you shouldn't invest in carriers too much is that they are very expensive and are basically mobile airports. But Italy has holdings all around the Mediterranean so your planes should be able to reach combat without carriers. So you'd be better off investing your resources in other ships that will be more necessary. And after you have won (or lost, in which case you're pretty fucked) the initial struggle for the Mediterranean you'll mostly be fighting minors like Greece, Turkey and Bulgaria who you should be able to crush on the waves at least. And fight in the Allied African colonies of course, but a navy won't be all that useful there anyway

 

[Mirage2k]

We have to remember that one critical factor has changed drastically from HoI3 here: Air wings no longer repair "for free" as a single unit, instead every plane lost will have to be replaced through the IC you would like to use for building more planes. The strategy of attrition via aerial bombardment that was used in HoI3 may end up causing more attrition to yourself than to the enemy unless Naval bombers have become more deadly since then.

Personally I will be focusing on a surface based on battleships, with a minimal air force of interceptors and naval bombers for scouting and support. The British do have carriers that can sometimes be found in the med, so interceptors are a must to protect your other combat units from them. One issue with this strategy is that naval dockyards are now different from your other military factories, so not using lots of planes for the naval battle means that you are not leveraging your military factories to the naval war. We will be producing ships from our starting dockyards anyway, my plan would have to rely on building lots of naval dockyards early and start building military factories later to circumvent that.

 

[kviiri]

I kinda agree Carriers sound like a waste for Mediterranean use, but won't know for sure before we see how air and naval combat properly interact. The added coverage for being close to action might tip the odds. We saw in Daniel's quick demo that planes will take some hours to reach the hot zone, which should be taken into consideration.

Carriers might be worth it for more ambitious naval strategies, ones extending beyond Mare Nostrum. I can see them becoming particularly effective if one plans to take on Great Britain, because carrier-based planes can provide coverage around the entire island. Mirage2k makes a good point about air wings though - whereas a traditional fleet only costs naval dockyard and MP, air wings need military factories too. A surface fleet could thus be far more affordable.

 

[Miinda]

Naval bombers like heck and then very, very quickly try and seal off the Italian lake (as it is henceforth called) by quick invasions of Gibraltar and Suez. Taking on the Royal navy in a fair fight isn't going to happen in the life-time of the game, but if you can restrict how many ships they get in and then absolutely bomb the living heck out of them, you might just be able to do it.

 

[kviiri]

Naval bombers like heck and then very, very quickly try and seal off the Italian lake (as it is henceforth called) by quick invasions of Gibraltar and Suez. Taking on the Royal navy in a fair fight isn't going to happen in the life-time of the game, but if you can restrict how many ships they get in and then absolutely bomb the living heck out of them, you might just be able to do it.

Not to mention that putting the entire Royal Navy in the Mediterranean would leave the UK with very little to defend their island with from other threats. But it would be a very Paradox-AI thing to do...

 

[CHRIS3169]

Planes, atleast early on to help you seize the Suez and Gibraltar, maybe with a combination paratrooper/marine invasion at each, then build up coastal forts on both and as long as Spain doesn't join the war, Gibraltar should be pretty much unconquerable... then maybe switch to subs since you have the Mediterranean on lock, maybe with a few carriers or old capital ships going into the red sea to make sure the Soviets don't send out their measly fleet. Send a large sub fleet up to strangle England, camp out on the east coast of America, and maybe even take the Panama canal later on if you have enough capital ships left for a surprise attack