avoiding the BB war

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by swilhelm73


I didn't say you *can't* diploannex at higher BB levels, or diplovassilize for that matter, it just becomes harder.

As an example a while back I had a BB of 5, vassal had been so for 10 years - tried to diploannex, I get a no, no, no and bring vassaliztion. ARGH. But the game crashes.

So I say forget them...two years later I notice my BB is down to 4...same monarchs, same everything else (an uneventful 2 years). Try to diploannex - bingo it works.

Since then, I've noticed the same pattern - the higher the BB the less the chance of diploannexing/vassalizing. It isn't the only factor, but it does play a role. Time, of course, is the biggest factor...

Even if you haven't raised one single soldier or set up one single TP (increase of army size or country size in provinces, respectively) the major difference is likely the two years, and luck.

When I played EU1 I might somethimes do the reload-game when trying to dip-annex, and I could fail 8-12 times before success, at exactly same situation.

Also, the longer you wait, the more likely success will become, so even two measly years could make a difference.

 

[unmerged(9404)]

The only known problem with high bb and diplo-annex is the fact that your relatons will deter quicker. A high BB might have a direct effect, but is hard to know as it depends on so much factors AND luck. But still relative might and time are most important.

BTW a way to see your might compared to another country is to look at the size of the gifts you can give.

 

[Stingray]

How the ¤&(%#"/ do you get 800 per month early enough? And how do you survive the uprisings during neverending war ??

 

[Castellon]

Originally posted by Stingray
How the ¤&(%#"/ do you get 800 per month early enough? And how do you survive the uprisings during neverending war ??

He did say wait longer than 100 years!
So he was not talking about having 800 a month in the "Early" game.
Pls use the quote button on the bottom of the post you are talking about, I had to scroll up pretty far to find the post you were referencing.

P.S. Welcome to the forum!

 

[unmerged(5664)]

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned here:

There are BB wars, and then there are BB wars. The first kind of BB wars can happen at any difficulty level. I don't know when they kick in, but around 10 seems to be about it. At this first kind of BB war the AI will only attack if you seem weak and manageable. If you are powerful enough, no one will attack you.

The other kind of BB wars kick in at 35 BB points, and only at V Hard difficulty. When this kind of BB war hits the AI will attack no matter what.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by BarristerBoy
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned here:

There are BB wars, and then there are BB wars. The first kind of BB wars can happen at any difficulty level. I don't know when they kick in, but around 10 seems to be about it. At this first kind of BB war the AI will only attack if you seem weak and manageable. If you are powerful enough, no one will attack you.

The other kind of BB wars kick in at 35 BB points, and only at V Hard difficulty. When this kind of BB war hits the AI will attack no matter what.

Probably because the first type of war isn't a BB war, but merely an attack of opportunity

 

[unmerged(5664)]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen

Probably because the first type of war isn't a BB war, but merely an attack of opportunity

No, it's definitely a BB war. Try playing a one-province minor, rack up a few BB points becoming a 3 province minor, and everyone and their dog will DOW you.

Just because it isn't the hideous BB-war hell that VHard brings in doesn't make it not a BB war.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by BarristerBoy


No, it's definitely a BB war. Try playing a one-province minor, rack up a few BB points becoming a 3 province minor, and everyone and their dog will DOW you.

Just because it isn't the hideous BB-war hell that VHard brings in doesn't make it not a BB war.

Okay, case of different definitions

I call the first type a BB inspired war, and reserve the dreaded epithet BB war for the dreaded BB war phenomenon which is the very hard 35 BB killer frenzy imported from EU1.

 

[unmerged(5664)]

I think the subtlety of the non-VHard BB wars are under-rated on these boards.

The feelings of almost invincibility, then that one event happens before everyone DOWS you; it just doesn't feel as random as the old-school BB war did.

 

[unmerged(6909)]

There was a question of how to survive BB-wars:

- Prepare for them (manypower, money, armies)
- Lower the # of bordering countries
- increase the # of diplomats either by sliders or by timing the triggering of the BB wars when you have a monarch with very good dip skill. (That's important for making pease proposals if you don't get them from your enemies.)
- Time your attacks and even more important: time your peace proposals. It's useless for Russia to be at peace with Austria for 5 years when you're still at war with Scotland - and don't have a fleet to get them. By the time you're succesful in Scotland you`ll get into another war with Austria&allies. Try to make peace at once with all your enemies.
-keep some buffer states as allies/vassals. In the case of Russia: Greece/Ukraine/Bulgaria/Serbia. If they don't exist at that time: release them at vassals and ally with them so they won't attack you. This can limit the # of enemies bordering your country. Those vassals will also try to convert their provinces to your religion...your vassals share your religion, right?

IMO diplomats are the most important ressource besides manpower. They are the tools to get you 1 day peace after 4 years of fighting and steadily rising war-weariness. 1 day: That's enough, for starting the next round of war of course.
Don't waste your dipomats on offering a peace you won't get. Safe them for annexing other nations or desparate situations.

 

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by Nebukadnezar
There was a question of how to survive BB-wars:
-keep some buffer states as allies/vassals. In the case of Russia: Greece/Ukraine/Bulgaria/Serbia. If they don't exist at that time: release them at vassals and ally with them so they won't attack you. This can limit the # of enemies bordering your country. Those vassals will also try to convert their provinces to your religion...your vassals share your religion, right?

Most point were valid and good advice, but this wasn't completely so.

Buffer states are good, but not on your continent, since all with capitals on your continent will always DoW you, regardless of being neighbor or not.

Also, vassals religions are either hard-coded, or the majority of their provinces.

[edit: I got some time to continue posting so: Some vassals are hard-coded, if not then religion is based on majority of provinces. Also, since conversion is expensive you'll not see them doing it often, but it might work.]

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by Nikolai II
[edit: I got some time to continue posting so: Some vassals are hard-coded, if not then religion is based on majority of provinces. Also, since conversion is expensive you'll not see them doing it often, but it might work.]

It's the capital's religion that gets taken.

 

[unmerged(9994)]

Originally posted by Nikolai II


Most point were valid and good advice, but this wasn't completely so.

Buffer states are good, but not on your continent, since all with capitals on your continent will always DoW you, regardless of being neighbor or not.

Also, vassals religions are either hard-coded, or the majority of their provinces.

[edit: I got some time to continue posting so: Some vassals are hard-coded, if not then religion is based on majority of provinces. Also, since conversion is expensive you'll not see them doing it often, but it might work.]

If he invites them into his alliance they won't. Obviously, this is a tactic you'd want to use before starting the war.

I probably wouldn't bother with releasing vassals, but getting into a big alliance before kicking off the wars is very helpful. Just don't ask them for help, they'll dishonor the alliance and DOW you.

 

[unmerged(6909)]

Originally posted by Nikolai II


Most point were valid and good advice, but this wasn't completely so.

Buffer states are good, but not on your continent, since all with capitals on your continent will always DoW you, regardless of being neighbor or not.

Also, vassals religions are either hard-coded, or the majority of their provinces.

[edit: I got some time to continue posting so: Some vassals are hard-coded, if not then religion is based on majority of provinces. Also, since conversion is expensive you'll not see them doing it often, but it might work.]

Religion of capital province determines the religion of the released vassal. There are a few hard coded nations (Kingdom of Palestine (sp) iirc among a few others) but it's very unlikely that you'll see them hanging around after 1450.
You can try it out as a catholic/protestant/etc nation by conquering Moscow. Then send some missionairies there. After the conversion release Russia as a vassal.
They'll have your religion!
Since they have russian culture it will be very easy for them to convert their provinces with russian culture to their (and also your) religion.
All you have to do is to make sure that they are going to have enough money and provinces.
I did it with Russia and the mentioned nations. They converted everything they could. They had the money because noone dared to attack them. They had my techs. They were the only nations allowed to trade in my Cot's etc....
So, I have seen 6+2+4=successful conversions for Ukraine, Bulgaria, Greece.
I diploannexed them when they had nothing left to convert
If you just release some vassals without caring for their ability to convert something you'll get worse results.


Buffer states:
No, not every nation on your continent will attack you. They need a way either by land or by sea to attack you. A landlocked Brandenburg won't DOW Russia. They may attack you when they are a part of alliance but they won't DOW you on their own. Big difference. All you need to get peace with an alliance is to defeat their current leader.
That's what buffer states are for.

Eddie is right about not asking them for helping you in a BB war.

 

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by Nebukadnezar

Buffer states:
No, not every nation on your continent will attack you. They need a way either by land or by sea to attack you. A landlocked Brandenburg won't DOW Russia. They may attack you when they are a part of alliance but they won't DOW you on their own. Big difference. All you need to get peace with an alliance is to defeat their current leader.
That's what buffer states are for.

Strange, but might be true, although it isn't in the basic description of BB-wars, but it would explain an instance I had in my BB-game, so live and learn I guess

Still, most nations in Europe has coasts or are in alliances so the point is usually moot I guess.

How will a buffer state help me defeat the current leader?

Soo.. capital religion.. capital.. this I might have to use..although I think I'd rather give them cash as gifts than let them trade in my CoTs.

Btw, IIRC Ottoman Turks and Crimean Tatars are at least two long-lived states with hard-coded religions, as are Netherlands and USA (appears later though)