avoiding the BB war

[unmerged(6448)]

I am trying to conquer the world but am still a little smallish. I am not sure I can win a BB war quite yet. My BB is 15, and my neighbors seem to be begging me to liberate them. Should I make a move or wait a bit until my BB drops?

At what level does your Badboy rating lead to BB wars?

 

[unmerged(3999)]

35... you still have a lot of room. Which country are you trying?

 

[unmerged(6448)]

The Papal States.

Are you serious about 35? That seems really high. I think I have gotten into BB wars at about 20 in the past. I am on very hard/normal if that matters.

I plan to unite Italy, consolidate my gains, and build up a decent army and navy. Then I will launch over 300 years of nearly nonstop warfare on an unsuspecting world.

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by Dorsey4Heisman
The Papal States.

Are you serious about 35? That seems really high. I think I have gotten into BB wars at about 20 in the past. I am on very hard/normal if that matters.

I plan to unite Italy, consolidate my gains, and build up a decent army and navy. Then I will launch over 300 years of nearly nonstop warfare on an unsuspecting world.

The higher your BB, the more likely the AI is to attack you - but BB was don't start until 35...btw, you probably want to expand for more than 100 years before kicking off the BB wars, starting as a minor.

Less than a manpower of 100 and an income of say $800 a month will make things tough to put it mildly for that first BB war...

 

[unmerged(3999)]

Yep. The rule of thumb is that it should take 100 years to conquer Europe, then 100 years for the rest of the world, which I found to be true in my only WC.

You might want to take out the Aztecs and Incas after uniting Italy; if you leave their capitals alone, it'll be a total cost of 0 BB. And you'll need a lot of money for your BB army. Like two million men.

 

[unmerged(9994)]

The size of the forces and economy you need is largely dependant on how early you start the bb wars. I played as France and launched a successful bb war in 1520 with 500,000 troops, with the front limited to Europe. Playing as a German state and kicking off wars a century later, I've lost at least that many.

Another thing to keep in mind is the quantity/quality setter. In my France game, I had high quality and it wasn't a problem. I had a large empire very quickly. As Munster, I started in 1650 with high quality as well. You really don't want to go after level 3-5 forts in every province in the world with high quality. Quality(though never the better option) is particularly bad when you don't kill off Europe quickly.

 

[unmerged(8022)]

If you think to get BB war when you have conquered Italy, I thinky you will lose this wars

 

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by J. Banér
If you think to get BB war when you have conquered Italy, I thinky you will lose this wars

I agree, as a minor I'd suggest taking out co-religionists only by dip-annex.

Then steal maps from spain, or trade them with revolter from spain, to take all pagans non-capital lands. You might even want to force-convert pagans and diplo-annex them.

Make sure to convert all these pagan lands with missionaries before proceeding to BB-wars.

When you stole maps from Spain you also force-vassalized them, and with the size you have you can diplo-annex them, which IMHO is a good (great) way to start BB-wars by.

Also make sure you are in alliance with three other major powers in europe, and have six diplomats saved, and at least (year-1560)*10,000+500,000 men in your armies when you begin

This was my way, but there are many other, I guess
(The more the merrier though)

 

[Prince Eugene]

quantity is probably the best idea for WC since once it gets to the rest of the world you don't want to be sending in irreplaceable dudes with machine guns into malaria infested jungles getting them wiped way

 

[Petrarca]

Force-vassalize nations after you've taken away all their provinces but the capital, and diplo-annex at will.

 

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by Petrarca
Force-vassalize nations after you've taken away all their provinces but the capital, and diplo-annex at will.

Take provinces in defensive wars, force vassalize in offensive wars, since taking provinces by dip-annex or defensive war = 1 BB/prov while 2 BB/prov in offensive wars (no BB for colonies/TPs though)

 

[unmerged(6448)]

The diplo annex idea seems a good one to keep the BB down until I get large--but it seems expensive in terms of time. I can force vassalize--but it seems I then have to wait to take any more territory. Won't having a BB keep me from being able to diploannex? What is the BB level I can have and expect to do this?

 

[Castellon]

Originally posted by Dorsey4Heisman
The diplo annex idea seems a good one to keep the BB down until I get large--but it seems expensive in terms of time. I can force vassalize--but it seems I then have to wait to take any more territory. Won't having a BB keep me from being able to diploannex? What is the BB level I can have and expect to do this?

BB does not matter for diplo annex, just it's effect on your relations.

 

[unmerged(6448)]

Originally posted by Castellon


BB does not matter for diplo annex, just it's effect on your relations.

Really? So a 34 BB will be okay as long as I keep the relations up with state gifts?

 

[unmerged(8022)]

You will get one BB for every province you get when you diploannex

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by Dorsey4Heisman


Really? So a 34 BB will be okay as long as I keep the relations up with state gifts?

Actually that is NOT true. The higher your BB score the tougher it will be to diploannex.

That being said, if you are strong enough, and wait long enough, you can still do it.

In my latest WC attempt as Brandenburg, I force vassalized France in about 1585 and diploannexed them in 1620 with a BB of 33. This got my BB up to 80 or so and kicked off my BB wars.

 

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by swilhelm73


Actually that is NOT true. The higher your BB score the tougher it will be to diploannex.

That being said, if you are strong enough, and wait long enough, you can still do it.

In my latest WC attempt as Brandenburg, I force vassalized France in about 1585 and diploannexed them in 1620 with a BB of 33. This got my BB up to 80 or so and kicked off my BB wars.

During BB-wars you still can easily annex things as huge Poland or large Russia after 10 years. (With BBs running at the 400:es)

Actually all annexations can be done after 10 years, whatever rating your monarchs have, as long as you are powerful enough to only have to pay ~100 for state gifts and have an army of ~1Mmen (haven't tried it with less)

 

[Castellon]

Originally posted by swilhelm73


Actually that is NOT true. The higher your BB score the tougher it will be to diploannex.

I would like to know what your proof is of that!
I have diploannexed at very high BB values.

Since he was responding to my post where I said the only effect it had was on the negative relations it caused, I would like to know what other influence it has!

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by Castellon


I would like to know what your proof is of that!
I have diploannexed at very high BB values.

Since he was responding to my post where I said the only effect it had was on the negative relations it caused, I would like to know what other influence it has!

I didn't say you *can't* diploannex at higher BB levels, or diplovassilize for that matter, it just becomes harder.

As an example a while back I had a BB of 5, vassal had been so for 10 years - tried to diploannex, I get a no, no, no and bring vassaliztion. ARGH. But the game crashes.

So I say forget them...two years later I notice my BB is down to 4...same monarchs, same everything else (an uneventful 2 years). Try to diploannex - bingo it works.

Since then, I've noticed the same pattern - the higher the BB the less the chance of diploannexing/vassalizing. It isn't the only factor, but it does play a role. Time, of course, is the biggest factor...

 

[Castellon]

Originally posted by swilhelm73


I didn't say you *can't* diploannex at higher BB levels, or diplovassilize for that matter, it just becomes harder.

As an example a while back I had a BB of 5, vassal had been so for 10 years - tried to diploannex, I get a no, no, no and bring vassaliztion. ARGH. But the game crashes.

So I say forget them...two years later I notice my BB is down to 4...same monarchs, same everything else (an uneventful 2 years). Try to diploannex - bingo it works.

Since then, I've noticed the same pattern - the higher the BB the less the chance of diploannexing/vassalizing. It isn't the only factor, but it does play a role. Time, of course, is the biggest factor...

I never claimed you said it could not be done, I wanted to know what your proof was that it was a direct factor effecting the outcome. This you have given me above. You are saying you do not have any hard proof, it is based on your experiances.
I would say then that I must disagree. In my experiance it does not matter except as I noted, in it's indirect fashion of effecting the relations with the nation. I guess we will agree to disagree on this.