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Hmmmm.... this all makes sense... but it seems that the larger the population I capture/establish the greater my census taxes... perhaps it just coincides with my tech levels improving, and I assume it is from expansion. Well, of course it is somewhat... I guess just not as much as I thouhgt? 
That seems kind of counter-intuitive though.. you would think census taxes would be based on the population.
That seems kind of counter-intuitive though.. you would think census taxes would be based on the population.
This is EU we're talking about after all-home of the bouncing cannons.
What do you expect?
Blade--
Great quote. That movie is just too damn funny!
Gotta love the universes' loudest band....you have to listen from a neighboring planet. And the sound waves flaten forests LOL!!!!!!!
Great quote. That movie is just too damn funny!
Gotta love the universes' loudest band....you have to listen from a neighboring planet. And the sound waves flaten forests LOL!!!!!!!
OK, a summary.
* Census tax, as BiB points out is only affected by the initial province.csv value, stability, and (not pointed out) promotion of officials. See my diagram, economic stuff for gruesome details on the economy.
* Drafting, recruiting, or building of soldiers (whatever you want to call it) is affected by the province.csv value and stability.
* Affects on "Manpower" is unknown.
Originally posted by BiB
Just messed about a bit with my Poland save.
Warsaw has 10 for base tax, Krakow has 12. I have +25 at +3 stab and -10 at -2. Krakow has 15K inhabitants, Warsaw has 11K.
When I change the pop of either adding 100K the tax income, the census one doesn't change. Production obviously does. When I change the stability from 3 to -2 the tax income drops from 13 to 9 for Warsaw and from 16 to 11 for Krakow (both provinces have taxcollectors). Pop doesn't matter, stab does.
When at stab 3 u can draft 13K at Warsaw and 16K at Krakow. Once again I added 100K to each. No change. Still 13 and 16. So pop isn't the factor. When dropping stab from 3 to -2 the numbers decrease to 9 for Warsaw and 11 for Krakow. Stab does very much matter.
When decreasing the base tax from 10 to 5 in Warsaw u can only draft 7000 troops at stab 3, regardless of pop.
I also changed Warsaw to a city with just 900 inhabitants. Results stay the same. At stab 3 13 income and 13 troops can be drafted. Same goes for stab -2.
*Edited to fix some stuff Agelastus mentioned, good man
Would you care to explain why province A had a manpower of 2 at the start of the game and 4 later? Now as I think of it... I seem to have forgotten something. What could it be? Any idea
Oh yes that's it. How bout tax collectors and legal counsels. Or agricultural revolution random events?
God I'm silly I didn't thought about that. Anyway it did help my post count
The thing is, BiB, that you have addad 100k to the population of the CITY. Not the province.
Big difference.
Big difference.
i have to disagree...census taxes are affected by population in my games...in provs with same inherent value the one that has natives and gets to 5k to start has higher base tax value then one with 700...i believe its based off key break points.. its obvious taxes changce in colony levels you see it after a while which each step increase...when it turns into city it jumps up more than each step..which is reasonable...but if you keep sending colonists to get it over 1k <which game says will protect your city from decreases like in africa/india/indonsesia where they often have negative pop growth ..preventing them from falling under 1k except by plague or seige> like i said in india especially many of provs have same base values in prov.csv and same as colonies while growing..but the one that hits 700 will have lower tax and production values then the one that has 10k i see it all the time ...but i believe its based off break points..
.also population growth rates are affected by pop...i have seen provs crossing from 9999 to 10000 and their pop growth rate went up as well...unsure other break points on that..this is why whenever i have colonists just sitting around and cant do anything with them ill use them often to raise city pops at home...any prov under 5k ill raise...i often end up with fairly rich Sweden as taxes and production goes up with full healthy provs at home...however when you can go afield and set up new...do it..and yes go for cities not tps...only use tps for 2 reasons 1 if you are gonna end up wasting a colonists <end up with more then 6> and if you need to set a flag in a high attrition prov in oder to setup beyond it <in siberiuan corridor they are often low chance colonies that can be flagged with tps and in this area only allows you to build a colony other side...unlike other regions where you need to build to city level before you can build colony other side...using tps to flag provs is good...but most of time they really arent any faster then a colony to set up...a little but not a great amount not wqorth the waste of a colonist to me... tps are too vulnerable in game...and the computer will never not burn the ones he reaches. I dont burn the ones computer has sicne they help raise values of COTs which ill go conquer first...then later if i annex a nation i get all his tps and raise them to cities sicne having a tp gives you better chance to set a colony up..
.also population growth rates are affected by pop...i have seen provs crossing from 9999 to 10000 and their pop growth rate went up as well...unsure other break points on that..this is why whenever i have colonists just sitting around and cant do anything with them ill use them often to raise city pops at home...any prov under 5k ill raise...i often end up with fairly rich Sweden as taxes and production goes up with full healthy provs at home...however when you can go afield and set up new...do it..and yes go for cities not tps...only use tps for 2 reasons 1 if you are gonna end up wasting a colonists <end up with more then 6> and if you need to set a flag in a high attrition prov in oder to setup beyond it <in siberiuan corridor they are often low chance colonies that can be flagged with tps and in this area only allows you to build a colony other side...unlike other regions where you need to build to city level before you can build colony other side...using tps to flag provs is good...but most of time they really arent any faster then a colony to set up...a little but not a great amount not wqorth the waste of a colonist to me... tps are too vulnerable in game...and the computer will never not burn the ones he reaches. I dont burn the ones computer has sicne they help raise values of COTs which ill go conquer first...then later if i annex a nation i get all his tps and raise them to cities sicne having a tp gives you better chance to set a colony up..
Census taxes are not affected by pop
Population amount does influence growth rate. At 1000 the first location penalty gets softened, at 5000 it is eliminated.
Population amount does influence growth rate. At 1000 the first location penalty gets softened, at 5000 it is eliminated.
Originally posted by BiB
What are u on ? There are only populations for cities
Nope, there is population in provinces too.
Thats what the income is, more or less.
More income - more ppl in province.
You dont see the exact amount of ppl, but neither did the rulers back then.
It's a base tax number set in the province file, nothing more, nortthing less. If u wanna make up imaginary province population numbers with that, that's ur case Not to mention there'd be a fair few anomalies
Not to mention there'd be a fair few anomalies
What BiB said.
The only population used in the game is the city population. The city is a "proxy" for the whole province.
Incomes that vary based on population are:
* production
* mines (gold)
* tolls
* amount of trade sent to a CoT
Whatever you do, do not trust the manual or the ingame displays (unless told otherwise). Some bits are correct, others mostly correct, some are just wierd. Good places to look ingame: Click on the church of a province - the pop up for the number to the left of your shield breaks down monthly income for that province. The bit that says "trade" is really tolls. The number to the right is the amount sent to a CoT. Pages 9 and 13 of the ledger are very good (numbers are rounded).
Test it. It doesn't vary except for stability and promotion of officials (one time events). Also, you get monthly income from vassels tax income if you have any.
The only population used in the game is the city population. The city is a "proxy" for the whole province.
Incomes that vary based on population are:
* production
* mines (gold)
* tolls
* amount of trade sent to a CoT
Whatever you do, do not trust the manual or the ingame displays (unless told otherwise). Some bits are correct, others mostly correct, some are just wierd. Good places to look ingame: Click on the church of a province - the pop up for the number to the left of your shield breaks down monthly income for that province. The bit that says "trade" is really tolls. The number to the right is the amount sent to a CoT. Pages 9 and 13 of the ledger are very good (numbers are rounded).
Ah, mercy, nobody has posted more.
It is not as simple as BiB and I believe (i.e. census and monthly taxes = the value in province.csv x stability modifier + officials bonus).
I was looking into another part of the economy and decided to take a quick reality check, and immediately found problems. The prior calculation is only correct for Catholic countries. I cannot figure out what is going on. I know that it is not population, province religion, manufactories, a port, proximity to a CoT, or some aspect of production or toll income. Country religion is a factor, but I cannot tell how. Though I can say that Protestant will yield a small number of extra ducats a year in tax per province, Reformed a small number fewer, and Sunni a little bit more.
I had to revisit the evil world of reverse engineering the economy. You end up asking questions like "maybe the calculation is done in this order, with rounding to two digits there, then rounding to one there, with that always rounded up..."
Anyway to the original question (I have no idea what the thread is about anymore), population has nothing to do with taxes, but something else, unknown, does.
It is not as simple as BiB and I believe (i.e. census and monthly taxes = the value in province.csv x stability modifier + officials bonus).I was looking into another part of the economy and decided to take a quick reality check, and immediately found problems. The prior calculation is only correct for Catholic countries. I cannot figure out what is going on. I know that it is not population, province religion, manufactories, a port, proximity to a CoT, or some aspect of production or toll income. Country religion is a factor, but I cannot tell how. Though I can say that Protestant will yield a small number of extra ducats a year in tax per province, Reformed a small number fewer, and Sunni a little bit more.
I had to revisit the evil world of reverse engineering the economy. You end up asking questions like "maybe the calculation is done in this order, with rounding to two digits there, then rounding to one there, with that always rounded up..."
Anyway to the original question (I have no idea what the thread is about anymore), population has nothing to do with taxes, but something else, unknown, does.
Hmmmm.... let's call it "The X Factor"! Quick! Publish now before someone steals our evidence of a mystery element!
Originally posted by Blade!
Hmmmm.... let's call it "The X Factor"! Quick! Publish now before someone steals our evidence of a mystery element!
More likely the X, Y and Z factors! "Reverse engineering" the economy calculations doesn't sound like a very profitable task with something as opaque as EU is in many respects (lets not start on CoTs now!
)
nothign strange about that,,, in the book and all through board it covers that...religion has tax mods...proestants get a bonus %, Calvinists get anegative 20/30% CRC gets a negative 20%, shiite gets a negative 20/30% i froget exactly...but thats why your tax figures vary so much in that respect..pagan sunni orthodox and catholic are base values
Hard Boiled
"I had just lit my 46th cigarette of the morning, and poured another large glass of scotch (Guatamalan, made from sugar cane - times are tough right now), when in walks this dame - you know, blonde, dark glasses, legs all the way up to... She asked if I was Hugh Gibbons, famous PI. 'That's me, sweetheart, what do you want?' as I lit her cigarette. Well, it seems she thinks her husband is being unfaithful. What a surprise. I see the dark side of human nature everyday. People think the world is good, and everybody is pure, but spend some time in divorce court... So, she says that she happened to see her husband's financial records and saw unusual payments to other women..."
What is strange is that after you run several tests to eliminate factors that might affect things, you end up with:
* this province's tax value is off by 1.0791%
* that province's tax value is off by 2.1267%
* all province's production value is of by 0.1 Ducats
* infra and trade % modifiers seem to vary hugely depending on religion and not with simple 5/10/20% differences, but 1,3,11% differences
The first two, are even worse, you can run the calculations in different order and with different rounding and get 10 different results. So, you experiment and look for factors that might make big differences - change tax_stab modification to 100% and see what it does - aaargh, you get 10 more results none of which are consistent. You edit provinces.csv and the scenario file to create a bunch of identical provinces - are the results consistent - no!
"I was beginning to think this dame was setting me up. It just wasn't right. Those payments to other women were nothing. Something else is going on..."
Well, CoT's is what I started to investigate...Originally posted by Agelastus
More likely the X, Y and Z factors! "Reverse engineering" the economy calculations doesn't sound like a very profitable task with something as opaque as EU is in many respects (lets not start on CoTs now!
"I had just lit my 46th cigarette of the morning, and poured another large glass of scotch (Guatamalan, made from sugar cane - times are tough right now), when in walks this dame - you know, blonde, dark glasses, legs all the way up to... She asked if I was Hugh Gibbons, famous PI. 'That's me, sweetheart, what do you want?' as I lit her cigarette. Well, it seems she thinks her husband is being unfaithful. What a surprise. I see the dark side of human nature everyday. People think the world is good, and everybody is pure, but spend some time in divorce court... So, she says that she happened to see her husband's financial records and saw unusual payments to other women..."
What is strange is that after you run several tests to eliminate factors that might affect things, you end up with:
* this province's tax value is off by 1.0791%
* that province's tax value is off by 2.1267%
* all province's production value is of by 0.1 Ducats
* infra and trade % modifiers seem to vary hugely depending on religion and not with simple 5/10/20% differences, but 1,3,11% differences
The first two, are even worse, you can run the calculations in different order and with different rounding and get 10 different results. So, you experiment and look for factors that might make big differences - change tax_stab modification to 100% and see what it does - aaargh, you get 10 more results none of which are consistent. You edit provinces.csv and the scenario file to create a bunch of identical provinces - are the results consistent - no!
"I was beginning to think this dame was setting me up. It just wasn't right. Those payments to other women were nothing. Something else is going on..."