Average casaulties done by units - values (infograph)

[Zwirbaum]

I'll try to do my best.

I used the wiki formulas :

First, for the Dresult, i chose to remove the terrain and leader modifiers, which gave me Dresult = Droll + Attacking unit attack pips - Defending unit defense pips
As for the Droll, i took the middle ground of 4.5 (i know there is no such die roll but it doesn't really matter).

Then, i had to compare the difference in pips between the different units. As i didn't want to cover all units from all tech groups, i chose to focus on the western units and selected them acccording to this reasoning :

• The infantery is here to absorb the damages, then i'll choose the unit with the most defensive pips (with and exeption at the tech 6/7, where i'll take the Longbow as the shock modifier for infantery is almost on par with the cavalry's one)
• Cavalry's here to deal a lot of damages during shock phases, so i'll choose the unit with the most offensive shock pips

So, i selected the following units :

Spoiler

I could then calculate the Dresult in each case, and determine Base Casualties.

Here it seems that the wiki has been uptaded, in my formula i used this chart but now there is a different formula. It may explain partly why the results differ.
Anyway i got a Base Casualties of 36 with a Dresult of 4.5 (against 37.5 with the updated formula).

To get the final results, i then applied the formula Casualties = Base Casualties * Attacking unit modifier / Defending unit tactic.
I removed from the calculation things like Discipline, Combat Ability and Unit Strengh, to get exploitable results.

But you were missing entirely damage in fire phase as infantry for tech 3-11. Which is something that shouldn't happen, because since the release of the game fire damage modifier was always present. But anyways as you mentioned it was done in the time when damage was non-linear so it's not that much important to this discussion

 

[Restif]

Well, until Tech 12 infantery doesn't have any Fire pip and its fire modifier is crap, and i didn't want to waste too much time .

And it was done in September 2015, at this time the damage calculation has already been changed to something more linear (there was just no formula in the Wiki but the chart i linked instead).

 

[Zwirbaum]

Well, until Tech 12 infantery doesn't have any Fire pip and its fire modifier is crap, and i didn't want to waste too much time .

And it was done in September 2015, at this time the damage calculation has already been changed to something more linear (there was just no formula in the Wiki but the chart i linked instead).

Fire pips or not fire pips doesn't matter (more important is who has more off vs def or def vs off) , and modifier while crap it may look like, because of rather low tactics value - may yet provide some casualties. (As you can see in case of my info ). And if in September 2015, then there still would be a lot of things in effect, so discarding them would be a rather mistake. But as you said, you didn't want to waste time so ok

I hope I don't sound like too grumpy or something like that! Thanks for sharing your chart as well.

 

[Restif]

Oh no it's ok, i like these discussions ; digging stuff in Paradox games is sometimes as fun as playing them x).

But i know i tend to underestimate infantery too much. I play a lot in mp and in my last game the austrian player choose to focus on offensive fire, it proved quite effective.

 

[lolada]

I don't know if anyone would find it interesting or would find it useful, but in preparations for guide, I made this graphic with average damage dealt by regiments, against units of equal military tactics. Maybe there will be something that you'll find interesting? (Like cavalry to my surprise sucks most at tech 6 and 7, and it is less effective than infantry regiments at that gap)

Good job, thanks. Found this topic only now.

I was doing my calculations some time ago and, basically, came to similar conclusion. Most of this is known to veteran players, but new players will probably find it very interesting.

Some interesting things are:

General:
- Fire phase comes always first, so shock damage tends to be reduced since units were damaged. Difference increases with time - because eventually fire tech modifiers equalize and surpass shock modifiers. But it takes about 20 military tech for modifiers to change relevance so much.
- Contrary to popular opinion for the first 20 levels infantry deals more (or equal) shock damage than fire damage.
- Cavalry always deals around 4x more shock damage then fire damage.
- Artillery becomes effective at levels 16+. Must have at 20-22+.
- Shock general and shock pips are better up to level 16 or 20, depending on army compositions. After that pick fire general.
- Pick units with more shock/fire pips accordingly
- From my testing, even Polish cavalry falls down at levels 20-22 to artillery. They are at peak with Cossack 6 shock pip and then lose on importance.
- Lol but western cavalry becomes better with time. its bad <lvl 10, very good @ 10-20, and then, as all cavalry, loses on importance.

Cavalry is cost inefficient but deals most damage
- deals average around 20-30% more damage than infantry (too lazy to calculate). It varies, but at some levels it deals 50+% more - levels 17-18. At levels 6-7 it deals less damage (this is probably oversight, but PI never cared to balance it) Some levels it does 5% more dmg. In any case, its 2.5x times more expensive. For max dmg cavalry is good, but it needs $$$.
- battle simulator in game doesn't place cavalry well, they often end up not fighting even if they can flank. This is quite unfortunate.

Artillery:
- Prior to level 16 only for sieges. Its better to invest in cavalry or more infantry. Unless a nation is filthy rich.
- Somewhere after level 20+ having artillery behind cavalry is basically doubling infantry damage. Great boost, by this point its a must have. I'd say artillery becomes usable from level 16, where it deals about 2/3 of infantry dmg.

- As far as i know, artillery adds half of its defensive pips to infantry. I suppose that artillery with 1 pip adds nothing. Artillery with 2 pips add 1. In game terms: Lvl13 artillery (Large Cast Iron Cannon) will add one defensive morale pip to units in front. Lvl16 (Chambered Demi Cannon) loses that pip -lol- but it adds 1 fire pip. Later artillery units become better and better. These pips are very important, they add something like 5% bonus in fights which is noticable.

 

[Zwirbaum]

Good job, thanks. Found this topic only now.

I was doing my calculations some time ago and, basically, came to similar conclusion. Most of this is known to veteran players, but new players will probably find it very interesting.

Some interesting things are:

General:
- Fire phase comes always first, so shock damage tends to be reduced since units were damaged. Difference increases with time - because eventually fire tech modifiers equalize and surpass shock modifiers. But it takes about 20 military tech for modifiers to change relevance so much.
- Contrary to popular opinion for the first 20 levels infantry deals more (or equal) shock damage than fire damage.
- Cavalry always deals around 4x more shock damage then fire damage.
- Artillery becomes effective at levels 16+. Must have at 20-22+.
- Shock general and shock pips are better up to level 16 or 20, depending on army compositions. After that pick fire general.
- Pick units with more shock/fire pips accordingly
- From my testing, even Polish cavalry falls down at levels 20-22 to artillery. They are at peak with Cossack 6 shock pip and then lose on importance.
- Lol but western cavalry becomes better with time. its bad <lvl 10, very good @ 10-20, and then, as all cavalry, loses on importance.

Cavalry is cost inefficient but deals most damage
- deals average around 20-30% more damage than infantry (too lazy to calculate). It varies, but at some levels it deals 50+% more - levels 17-18. At levels 6-7 it deals less damage (this is probably oversight, but PI never cared to balance it) Some levels it does 5% more dmg. In any case, its 2.5x times more expensive. For max dmg cavalry is good, but it needs $$$.
- battle simulator in game doesn't place cavalry well, they often end up not fighting even if they can flank. This is quite unfortunate.

Artillery:
- Prior to level 16 only for sieges. Its better to invest in cavalry or more infantry. Unless a nation is filthy rich.
- Somewhere after level 20+ having artillery behind cavalry is basically doubling infantry damage. Great boost, by this point its a must have. I'd say artillery becomes usable from level 16, where it deals about 2/3 of infantry dmg.

- As far as i know, artillery adds half of its defensive pips to infantry. I suppose that artillery with 1 pip adds nothing. Artillery with 2 pips add 1. In game terms: Lvl13 artillery (Large Cast Iron Cannon) will add one defensive morale pip to units in front. Lvl16 (Chambered Demi Cannon) loses that pip -lol- but it adds 1 fire pip. Later artillery units become better and better. These pips are very important, they add something like 5% bonus in fights which is noticable.

There is no defensive morale benefit IIRC from artillery. Only shock/fire. And as in my unit guide (link down below), I explained there the benefit of artillery (defensive). Artillery with 1 pip, doesn't add anything (and I had confirmation on it as well). Sorry for short answer here, and only applying to last sentence