Avars, Magyars

[Pontiac]

With the release of the Horse Lords DLC: are Avars, Magyars, Cumans etc. considered to fall under the "Horse Lords' mechanic?

Thanks

 

[CVDE]

Yup but I think the Avar are Tribal

Edit: But be warned, if your planing on doing a 769 start with HL know that Magyar "Rarely" attack the Avar and go extinct because they board Khazaria

 

[Pontiac]

Yup but I think the Avar are Tribal

Edit: But be warned, if your planing on doing a 769 start with HL know that Magyar "Rarely" attack the Avar and go extinct because they board Khazaria

Thanks for the reply. What does tribal status affect? Is it the same as the status of the Mongols?

 

[JodelDiplom]

Thanks for the reply. What does tribal status affect? Is it the same as the status of the Mongols?

Tribal status means they aren't nomads. Only nomads have the new Horse Lords mechanics. (Khaganates, clans, invasions, heirs spending time as mercenaries, succession going to the sibling or son with the most prestige instead of the firstborn, etc)

Tribals behave just like the Slavic, Suomenusko etc primitives that live in eastern Europe at the game start, i.e. they don't have horses, they don't have khanates, they don't have cities, they raid neighbouring provinces, they have only gavelkind succession, and their vassals use ally-mechanics when going to war, instead of giving liege levies.

Tribes are lame. Nomads are fierce. Mongols are Nomads, if you have Horse Lords enabled. If you don't have Horse Lords enabled, then the Mongols are tribals which means they have a few cool CBs but are overall fairly lame, and much less dangerous than they would be if they were Nomads.

If you want fierce nomads then you need Horse Lords.

 

[CVDE]

Thanks for the reply. What does tribal status affect? Is it the same as the status of the Mongols?

Tribal status means they aren't nomads. Only nomads have the new Horse Lords mechanics. (Khaganates, clans, invasions, heirs spending time as mercenaries, succession going to the sibling or son with the most prestige instead of the firstborn, etc)

Tribals behave just like the Slavic, Suomenusko etc primitives that live in eastern Europe at the game start, i.e. they don't have horses, they don't have khanates, they don't have cities, they raid neighbouring provinces, they have only gavelkind succession, and their vassals use ally-mechanics when going to war, instead of giving liege levies.

Tribes are lame. Nomads are fierce. Mongols are Nomads, if you have Horse Lords enabled. If you don't have Horse Lords enabled, then the Mongols are tribals which means they have a few cool CBs but are overall fairly lame, and much less dangerous than they would be if they were Nomads.

If you want fierce nomads then you need Horse Lords.

Pretty much all of this ^^

Also the Succession type for Tribal being "Lame" is about right. The worst in game.

 

[Damarrocarion]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/tribals-buildings-culture-and-terrain.899589/

I recently made some suggestions to give tribals some cultural variation to avoid them being carbon copies across the world.

If you have some ideas, post there.

 

[Pontiac]

Tribal status means they aren't nomads. Only nomads have the new Horse Lords mechanics. (Khaganates, clans, invasions, heirs spending time as mercenaries, succession going to the sibling or son with the most prestige instead of the firstborn, etc)

Tribals behave just like the Slavic, Suomenusko etc primitives that live in eastern Europe at the game start, i.e. they don't have horses, they don't have khanates, they don't have cities, they raid neighbouring provinces, they have only gavelkind succession, and their vassals use ally-mechanics when going to war, instead of giving liege levies.

Tribes are lame. Nomads are fierce. Mongols are Nomads, if you have Horse Lords enabled. If you don't have Horse Lords enabled, then the Mongols are tribals which means they have a few cool CBs but are overall fairly lame, and much less dangerous than they would be if they were Nomads.

If you want fierce nomads then you need Horse Lords.

Thank you for the explanation. Weren't Avars a Steppe people having migrated to the Hungarian plain from the steppe? It's that correct, shouldn't they have the nomad status?

 

[Pontiac]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/tribals-buildings-culture-and-terrain.899589/

I recently made some suggestions to give tribals some cultural variation to avoid them being carbon copies across the world.

If you have some ideas, post there.

I looked at your suggestions. I really like the ideas. Thanks for showing it.

 

[Dryhad]

Thank you for the explanation. Weren't Avars a Steppe people having migrated to the Hungarian plain from the steppe? It's that correct, shouldn't they have the nomad status?

They migrated there long before the start date. The Avars in the game have been living there for centuries, they're no longer nomadic (and the "Avar" culture likely represents Avarised Slavs living under them also)

 

[Thure]

Thank you for the explanation. Weren't Avars a Steppe people having migrated to the Hungarian plain from the steppe? It's that correct, shouldn't they have the nomad status?

No. The Avars at this point were no longer nomadic anymore.

 

[durbal]

With the release of the Horse Lords DLC: are Avars, Magyars, Cumans etc. considered to fall under the "Horse Lords' mechanic?

Thanks

Yes, unfortunately. Khazars for example were no more nomadic than Bedouins and a good portion of the Middle East and other areas, yet for some reason they're treated like they're Mongols even though they essentially stayed in the same area for centuries. Hell, they built cities that still exist today. When I got HL and saw that they were treated as nomads (especially in ALL start dates) I was very confused why the STEPPE = NOMAD decision seemed to be made. It could've been a much more interesting region with a variety of tribes, nomads, and feudal states of varying religions, but unfortunately we instead have this (for now only, I hope).

EDIT N.B.: I need to give the Nomad mechanics a more thorough playthrough, but at the moment I'm not a fan of where the line is drawn between nomads and tribals.

 

[Pontiac]

With Horse Lords enabled, are Mongols etc. classified as nomads from the earliest playable period, or only from the 13th Century?

 

[Karlingid]

This should answer your questions.

 

[Pontiac]

Thank you. I didn't know that government screen existed.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

I didn't realise England and Wales were feudal in the eighth century...

 

[n00bypl4y3r]

Yes, unfortunately. Khazars for example were no more nomadic than Bedouins and a good portion of the Middle East and other areas, yet for some reason they're treated like they're Mongols even though they essentially stayed in the same area for centuries. Hell, they built cities that still exist today. When I got HL and saw that they were treated as nomads (especially in ALL start dates) I was very confused why the STEPPE = NOMAD decision seemed to be made. It could've been a much more interesting region with a variety of tribes, nomads, and feudal states of varying religions, but unfortunately we instead have this (for now only, I hope).

EDIT N.B.: I need to give the Nomad mechanics a more thorough playthrough, but at the moment I'm not a fan of where the line is drawn between nomads and tribals.

I used to be making a Khazaria mod, and I was worried that nomad mechanics wouldn't represent Khazaria. To be honest, it's not that bad. The Qaganate was more bureaucratic than nomadic mechanics show, but they still had fairly independent tribes as shown by the migration of Kabars to Pannonia with the Magyars. Most of the things that can be upgraded in your capital can be attributed to Itil, Balanjar, Azov or Khazaran, among other cities. The horde army represents the Qagan-Bek's standing army fairly well, which was normally added on with Arsiya mercenaries from either Alania or Turkestan during war.

I mean, it's not perfect, but it's far better than it used to be.

 

[Thure]

I didn't realise England and Wales were feudal in the eighth century...

They had established realms. They were not tribal during this era. Feudal fitting them more.