autocephalous Patriarchs... why for vassal kingdoms?

[Gunnarr]

I am playing as HRE and started the game by playing an as an Orthodox emperor (with the ruler designer)

I was hoping to take all of Western Europe and have it under the Orthodox Patriarch of Rome, but it seems that orthodox kingdoms in the HRE are getting their own patriarch. Why is this? My vassal kingdom of Bohemia has a Patriarch of Bohemia, and I have a Patriarch of Rome. This makes no sense, and it I imagine it will do the same thing when I take france and such (Patriarch of France).

I just don't see why vassal kingdoms would have their own patriarch

 

[Strategyplay]

IIRC, because the orthodox church wasn't quite so centralized as the catholic church.

 

[Vinroke]

Kingdoms need to have a pentarch set in history files or they'll be autocephalous, in history/titles/k_bohemia.txt add pentarch=b_roma or any other pentarch besides Constantinople (Not working ATM).

France has pentarch=b_roma so it won't be autocephalous. Most of the WRE falls under rome, only a few are set for autocephaly. (ie. don't have pentarch=b_roma)

 

[Gunnarr]

IIRC, because the orthodox church wasn't quite so centralized as the catholic church.

That is true, but the Patriarchate of Rome still had juristiction over all the West. New Patriarchates were not created very often, ussually only for lands either that are indipendent or that are not in the traditional boundries of the "pentarchy". I am just complaining about kingdoms having a patriarch when those kingdoms are just vassal kingdoms. I mean, it is like having the kingdom of anatolia have a seperate patriarch from that of constantinople even when it is all under the roman empire.

 

[Isaios]

Doesn't sound WAD. Sounds most like they just forgot to add the code Vinroke mentioned.

 

[liamgamer55]

It'd make sense for the Kingdom of Armenia because that has an established autonomous church or maybe for Rus because of different circumstances but I agree it doesn't make sense for the "kingdom" of Anatolia (which if it's made in the empire ingame would kind've represent an administrative division or something).

 

[Theddude]

Rome's pentarchy jurisdiction encompasses basically everything that was the Western Roman Empire, minus Brittany for some reason and I believe Andalusia and Africa as well (Africa's in Alexandria, which I guess makes sense but I thought Carthage was under Rome, oh well). Germany, Bohemia, etc. were never part of the Roman Empire so they get left out of Rome's pentarchy.

 

[Goodfortune99]

It'd make sense for the Kingdom of Armenia because that has an established autonomous church or maybe for Rus because of different circumstances but I agree it doesn't make sense for the "kingdom" of Anatolia (which if it's made in the empire ingame would kind've represent an administrative division or something).

1+

 

[jordarkelf]

Kingdoms need to have a pentarch set in history files or they'll be autocephalous, in history/titles/k_bohemia.txt add pentarch=b_roma or any other pentarch besides Constantinople (Not working ATM).

France has pentarch=b_roma so it won't be autocephalous. Most of the WRE falls under rome, only a few are set for autocephaly. (ie. don't have pentarch=b_roma)

That's not how it's supposed to work. All orthodox kingdoms are supposed to be autocephalous, the pentarch line just decides which pentarch is used for non-kingdoms (counts, duchies) who have their capital in that de jure kingdom.

All pentarchs work as long their seats are owned, once Rome, Alexandria, or Jerusalem become owned by Orthodox rulers and a bishop is installed there they will get their authority.

If a kingdom has no pentarch set they default to the Ecumenical Patriarch (Constantinople).

And yeah that Scotland, Ireland, Brittany and Andalusia do not have b_roma set is probably a bug. All of Western Europe except perhaps the Scandinavian kingdoms should default to b_roma should they become orthodox.

 

[Oktobermensch]

Well, one could make an argument for countries East and North of Rhine having their own patriarch instead of Rome, based on the former imperial border, which was for a quite long time simultaneous with the church admin division.

To be honest, Pentarchy is not as benefical as one would think, as it deprives all emperor-level monarchs of excommunication power.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Well, one could make an argument for countries East and North of Rhine having their own patriarch instead of Rome, based on the former imperial border, which was for a quite long time simultaneous with the church admin division.

If you want to play alternate history, then actually Ireland and Brittany would be much better candidates for autokephalous "national" churches than Germany, because they are geographically much further from Rome and both have a history of defying central power.

Germany on the other hand was about as Rome-obedient (in terms of church affairs) as you could possibly be (after Henry IV's Canossa episode) so if western Europe was to turn orthodox, and there were still German kings, they would surely be among those jockeying for the biggest influence over the patriarch of Rome. Ireland on the other hand, being such a backwater, would surely want to run its own affairs and would only be brought under Rome's influence if an English ruler invaded them.

 

[jordarkelf]

Oh sure, if you are doing an AU where the Catholic/Orthodox split never occurred as such and Rome is just another Patriarch (or let the Orthodox church "win" with the LOR decision), there could be made a good case for a Pentarch of Canterbury for the British Isles (+Brittany), and maybe someone in Scandinavia, or a Patriarch of Moscow.
Then again these roles are taken by autocephalous patriarchs of England (etc,) and Russia (etc.) in the current setup.

 

[theKing1988]

Has people tried and failed in submitting kingdoms to Constantinople's rule, because this bugs me too. I wish PI would work on some hotfixes to LoR instead of that idiotic Sunset Invasion dlc. And don't claim that it hasn't stolen quite a lot of attention, the rate of hotfixes this time around is comparatively slower than when SoI was released, quite a lot slower in my book:sad:.

 

[Alerias]

Has people tried and failed in submitting kingdoms to Constantinople's rule, because this bugs me too. I wish PI would work on some hotfixes to LoR instead of that idiotic Sunset Invasion dlc. And don't claim that it hasn't stolen quite a lot of attention, the rate of hotfixes this time around is comparatively slower than when SoI was released, quite a lot slower in my book:sad:.

Sunset invasion comes with a patch that'll likely address LOR's issues. This is why we've seen less hotfixes, they knew they had a patch just a few weeks down the line.

 

[theKing1988]

Sunset invasion comes with a patch that'll likely address LOR's issues. This is why we've seen less hotfixes, they knew they had a patch just a few weeks down the line.

I didn't know that, that cheers me up a little bit then, only 3 days until that patch .