Every time I see someone have a problem with the economy its due to this. Why do all pops automatically promote no matter what and why is it instant? Perhaps it should take some time or allow us to really change employment priorities on planets.
Auto Promoting
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Honestly much as I love playing under the 2.2 economy, the fact that unskilled labourers are a precious resorce and educated specalists and professionals can be gotten at any time, feels really backwards. To be honest I'd preffer if the forums were as full of complainst as they are now, but it was all 'I can't get enough specalists, I have the buildings but they just wont promote' I mean there should be some friction moving down strata no one likes to see loss of standard of living, but at the same time not like this.
After all IRL attaining and maintaining a usefull population of skilled worker to maintain vital industries is a HUGE deal, and can tie into such things as Xeno rights, migration, living standards and the unexplored domains of Education policy vs Ethics.
After all IRL attaining and maintaining a usefull population of skilled worker to maintain vital industries is a HUGE deal, and can tie into such things as Xeno rights, migration, living standards and the unexplored domains of Education policy vs Ethics.
It's like Paradox bought into the cynical 'credentialist" view of education. Education is just a sorting device, and doesn't actually teach you anything useful; you learn all of that when you actually show up at the job your education got you assigned to.
In fairness, there are a lot of professions like this. But I'm pretty sure scientist isn't one of them.
In fairness, there are a lot of professions like this. But I'm pretty sure scientist isn't one of them.
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I agree, specialists are super important and should be harder to build a large base of. If I conquer my neighbours and amalgamate their lands and pops they should all be workers with no clue how to integrate or function in my society for the first while, not immediately fill difficult specialist jobs.
This is especially egregious when conquering as I've found (maybe a bug) that 3-4 of my pops will move to fill the leader/specialist roles on the new planets, even ones I have no desire to keep. This happens immediately and takes 2000 days to recover from the strata jump a bunch of workers just made, not to mention the huge loss of pops and jobs on my existing planets. It will even drop planets below a building threshold and ruin several structures across multiple worlds(seems to be mostly on habitats, but I play life seeded so my 2 gaia worlds plus ecumenopolis have a massive buffer of population).
This is especially egregious when conquering as I've found (maybe a bug) that 3-4 of my pops will move to fill the leader/specialist roles on the new planets, even ones I have no desire to keep. This happens immediately and takes 2000 days to recover from the strata jump a bunch of workers just made, not to mention the huge loss of pops and jobs on my existing planets. It will even drop planets below a building threshold and ruin several structures across multiple worlds(seems to be mostly on habitats, but I play life seeded so my 2 gaia worlds plus ecumenopolis have a massive buffer of population).
Perhaps the next time they need a solid c++ programmer they should auto-promote the receptionist.
I would love to see a worker skill/education system. Something like the current slavery system, but where a certain % of pops get allocated to a skill tier/strata depending on your education system. Newly acquired pops would have some lag to get sorted.
I hate to be "that guy," but I'd rather they promote to higher jobs than not.
I need alloys. Period. If I don't need more specialists, I just don't create the buildings.
I need alloys. Period. If I don't need more specialists, I just don't create the buildings.
I'm with you. With the game "as-is" I'm good with the insta-promotions. There could be more polish applied but overall it's manageable with enough micro and just-in-time building.
Note: Was annoyed recently. I upgraded a building [enforcer as it turns out]. Started with an unemployed worker. When the upgraded building [with additional enforcer jobs] completed I still had one unemployed person --- an unemployed ENFORCER. Seems that the unemployed worker had priority over a currently employed enforcer and "took his job". The enforcer had to he demoted so he could take the "worker" job I targeted for the original unemployed worker I started with.
Assume it was just a fluke.
There is also currently an order of operations problem when replacing buildings. It fills the new building with workers before destroying the old building so even a 1:1 job transfer results in unemployed pops.
Assuming you are playing a non-Gestalt empire, it sounds like you are running the land appropriation policy. You can always turn it off, and as far as I can tell, your factions don't care either way.
This isn't in the policy list at the start, does it come from a tech/tradition? Still seems silly that 4 farmers teleport thousands of lightyears away in a day and can function as a high priest or planetary governor.
Add Education for jobs, Education Policy (no high education for Xenos), School Buildings (College, University, etc.). Hence the Complex Specialist couldn't be filled by uneducated pops.
While we add it, why not adding Wealth Level, Plurality, Consciousness, Militancy, and Needs (Essential, Common, and Luxury) too.
While we add it, why not adding Wealth Level, Plurality, Consciousness, Militancy, and Needs (Essential, Common, and Luxury) too.
You get it as soon as you make contact with another empire. It's a bit of a weird policy, I agree, but the tooltip tells you exactly what to expect.
I think another issue causing economic death spirals is that players and PDX have different ideas on what the Internal and Galactic Market is suppose to be; I think most players see it as a crutch to be used for emergencies, while PDX I think wants it to be an integral part of your economy, selling excess in one thing to make up for another. The Market is still pretty new though, might take a few more updates and iterations before it can really take that role.
Anyway, I like the idea of it taking time to upgrade jobs; makes building those buildings something you have to anticipate for, rather than wait until you have unemployment or a need that outweighs the loss of basic resources.
Anyway, I like the idea of it taking time to upgrade jobs; makes building those buildings something you have to anticipate for, rather than wait until you have unemployment or a need that outweighs the loss of basic resources.
As to the people having trouble with autopromotion there are a few basic practices that make it no problem at all.
1.) have enough raw materials before you build something that uses them.
2.) Don't build too many higher tier buildings at the same time, especially early.
3.) if you are building a subsequent higher tier building on a planet that already has at least one, you can deprioritize some jobs on the existing buildings so that the new one does not draw all of its employees from the worker class. The short period of unemployment this creates for a few specialists can be less disruptive than running short of workers.
4.) The market is your friend. Don't think of it only as a way to make profit. Think of it as a way to cover temporary shortages as you upgrade your economy.
5.) Relocation is also your friend. You can do a lot of good things with this feature.
1.) have enough raw materials before you build something that uses them.
2.) Don't build too many higher tier buildings at the same time, especially early.
3.) if you are building a subsequent higher tier building on a planet that already has at least one, you can deprioritize some jobs on the existing buildings so that the new one does not draw all of its employees from the worker class. The short period of unemployment this creates for a few specialists can be less disruptive than running short of workers.
4.) The market is your friend. Don't think of it only as a way to make profit. Think of it as a way to cover temporary shortages as you upgrade your economy.
5.) Relocation is also your friend. You can do a lot of good things with this feature.
The other advantages to promotion rather than demotion time are it makes it harder to completly crash your economy, you'll always have food/minerals/energy/trade, its allys, unity, reserch and consumer goods you will fight for, and this creates a more realistic devide of empires between poor ones low in skilled workers who have to sell bulk resorces to get manufactured goods, and wealthyer higher tech ones who can afford to import raw resorces and export the more refined products. Possibly sets stage for new faction demands too 'have X% of our population working as specalists' as a pacifict or eglatarian type demand.
You mean there are players that aren't making regular use of the market?
Sheesh, my Agrarian Idyll/Inward Perfection civilization was basically feeding the entire galaxy at one point while I was buying extra minerals to retool half the economy.
Or people could actually think about whether or not they should construct those specialist buildings before placing them instead of treating it like a game of whack-a-mole.
Adding a delay wouldn't help that much. It makes it easier for people who know to immediately disable the jobs or whatever micro you care to do. However, it would make it very hard for people learning the system to learn proper discipline in constructing buildings. Having the feedback that you built too many specialists be delayed by a few months to a year will just confuse players as to what caused the economic crash. Who would think "Oh, it's that building I built six months ago," and immediately understand what to do in the future? The grace period they've discussed to make newly promoted pops demote instantly is a much better approach, as it allows people to do that bit of micro if they simply can't stand a yellow indication of an open building slot.
I would love to see some kind of education system hooked into promotion and such...in another expansion in the future. The current system works perfectly fine for now, and I'd want any kind of education system to at least be a story pack. I don't want that kind of thing hastily shoved in, since I'd love to see how a society educates its people be relevant to play beyond one abysmal ascension perk and a tradition or two.
they should just have a new policy you can change to make worker jobs valued more and in that instance pops won't naturally move to a higher job unless no others are available but they still act as they currently do if they are already in a higher tier job?