AUTO-MERGE. No thanks.

[dnlnn]

I will just copy paste my post from the Arumba's thread.

Everything is fine but the auto-merge which is an horrible idea. And no, the go home at war button does not work vs low-medium and above iq humans. I can see its potential utility so the perfect solution would be some pop-up that when you pick 1 or more new trade ships and sent them to an already patrolled trade node you should be able to merge it to the existing navies (plural) or not

Example. I am protecting trade in sevilla with four different navies. I create 10 new ships and I Sent them to sevilla. At that point a popup appears and I can choose to merge it with navy1 or navy2 or navy3 or navy4 or not merging at all.

Why do you have to leave everything half done ? It will be so easy to abuse and anybody that plays this game at a decent level knows why. It's that hard to add a simple pop-up to let you choose which fleet do you want to merge or if you want to merge your new ships at all ? ... ffs

Hey but you fixed the HRE abuse congratulations.

Foul language removed - Seelmeister

 

[spinoza013]

+1

 

[Yorkie-GBR]

+1

If I use profanities I will be heard!

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

1. How will automerge be abused?
2. How did they fix the HRE abuse?

 

[hitchens]

Yes it is a horrible idea.

+1 indeed.



Maybe TS should link to the Arumba thread in his OP?

 

[dnlnn]

1. How will automerge be abused?
2. How did they fix the HRE abuse?

1. I find where the main trade fleet of my enemy is protecting its trade, usually in his home trade node. I move my fleet to intercept it, when we met at the same tile DOW, bye bye trade fleet. And no, you can't avoid this with the home war button, the only way that button could work would be if the fleet would enter automatically in retreat status when someone DOW you but it's a pathetic solution....and you can't be constantly watching your trade fleet and its route.

2. Ask Wiz, they said it during the stream.

 

[oblio-]

I don't get your problem. You create 2 fleets and send them to protect a specific trade node. They merge.

Right now you send them 1 by 1, and either:
a) pray to the Paradox gods that they reach the same tile at the same time and merge them manually
b) stop your trade fleet from time to time to merge it with an awaiting fleet and merge them manually

So how does this auto-merging create any new problems? Please, do tell.

 

[Seelmeister]

Off topic/ insulting posts deleted.

Please reply to others respectfully.

 

[spinoza013]

This is a good feature but I'm afraid it should be optional. Forcing decisions like this is in my opinion completely wrong.

Why I think being forced to merge fleets is wrong is because there are some instances where it is disadvantageous.

I'll use a Milan game for example.

It's early game and you've scrapped your transports for 4 light ships.
They are on a mission to protect the Venice trade node. You have the return to port in War box checked.
Venice declares war on you and before you can return home your 4 light ships are wiped by the venetian navy. Arumba suggests that you should have a pop up at engagement and you can disengage after 8 days. But let's say it was the Ottomans that declared War and they have 60 galley fleet with inland sea bonus- your 4 ships won't last 8 days.

A way around this fate is to have 4 fleets protecting the trade routes. You may lose 1 or 2 at the outbreak of war but you'd still have 2 light ships and save 40 gold.

This doesn't seem a lot but in the early game small things like this matter.

As I said I'm not against the idea as it essentially is a great addition but it should be optional for those who prefer to micromanage their small but precious ships.

 

[hitchens]

I don't get your problem. You create 2 fleets and send them to protect a specific trade node. They merge.

Right now you send them 1 by 1, and either:
a) pray to the Paradox gods that they reach the same tile at the same time and merge them manually
b) stop your trade fleet from time to time to merge it with an awaiting fleet and merge them manually

So how does this auto-merging create any new problems? Please, do tell.

Example.

Lets say you are protecting trade in Lubeck, with 2 fleets. Suddenly you are with war with someone, and a few minutes after GB joins. Before you have time to react you get battle lost and its GB's doomfleet that has wiped out one of your fleets. This makes you aware of that fact and you have time to steer the other fleet away. Also, even if you had checked the return home in case of war options, chances are the AI are gonna sail right into enemy ships something that happens often in nodes like Lubeck or Baltic sea that has bottle necks.

Merging into one fleet will simply mean your entire fleet gets sunk by GB. Of course if you have a huge fleet this is no problem, but personally I like to play small nations and often find myself with puny fleets and I need to take good care of them.

 

[ChildeR]

1. I find where the main trade fleet of my enemy is protecting its trade, usually in his home trade node. I move my fleet to intercept it, when we met at the same tile DOW, bye bye trade fleet.

And if you split your fleet in two, the canny attacker will split his war fleet in two and DoW when both halves of your trade fleet overlap his. That's just more micromanagement for the attacker, not a solution.

 

[oblio-]

Example.

Lets say you are protecting trade in Lubeck, with 2 fleets. Suddenly you are with war with someone, and a few minutes after GB joins. Before you have time to react you get battle lost and its GB's doomfleet that has wiped out one of your fleets. This makes you aware of that fact and you have time to steer the other fleet away. Also, even if you had checked the return home in case of war options, chances are the AI are gonna sail right into enemy ships something that happens often in nodes like Lubeck or Baltic sea that has bottle necks.

Merging into one fleet will simply mean your entire fleet gets sunk by GB. Of course if you have a huge fleet this is no problem, but personally I like to play small nations and often find myself with puny fleets and I need to take good care of them.

And if you split your fleet in two, the canny attacker will split his war fleet in two and DoW when both halves of your trade fleet overlap his. That's just more micromanagement for the attacker, not a solution.

For both of you, if this is really such a problem, couldn't you just have 1 "canary" fleet on patrol on the same route?

I'd rather avoid tens if not hundreds of tedious operations - if they add a "enable/disable" button, even better. But I'm willing to use it even without it

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

And if you split your fleet in two, the canny attacker will split his war fleet in two and DoW when both halves of your trade fleet overlap his. That's just more micromanagement for the attacker, not a solution.

But that might make the attacker’s fleet vulnerable to a 3rd party or the extra micro might be deemed not worth it.

 

[hitchens]

I'd rather avoid tens if not hundreds of tedious operations

I never colonize because I hate the tedious nature of it, and all the screen scrolling. But managing my trade fleet is actually something I bother with. That said, there should be a merger option. Make it optional and were all happy campers

 

[lordelenath]

I think it's mostly a multiplayer issue, but I can see the problem even though I play singleplayer exclusively. A simple ticker just like the "return at war" option would be the best solution.

 

[slv]

Well, add heavy ships to your trade fleet. Note that with several fleets DOW strategy works just as fine, the attacker just have to separate his attacking fleet.

I strongly disagree with anyone who votes against this feature. Imagine if at start there was automerging scheme (i.e. all ships protecting trade in one node merge together. One node = one fleet). Do you think anyone would ever suggest a "feature" of allowing to separate protecting fleets?

 

[josh127]

When war is declared if ships are set to go home at war, set the exile flag on the fleet until they get home. Now the trade fleet getting wiped out because of a cheesy (but not cheating) action is resolved. You would probably need to disable the ability to remove the check until they get home to avoid abuse though.

Let me qualify this statement by saying, I absolutely hate the exile flag, however Wiz did state in the reply to Arumba that the issue of fleets getting picked off when war was declared was a different issue that should be fixed on its own (unless I interpreted his meaning wrong). Exiling the trade fleet with the flag checked until they get back to port (and making them go directly there) seems like the easiest solution to the problem. After the war is underway, if the check is ticked, it could just send them home as it normally does today.

 

[sumo0]

No more MP fixes plz. The vast majority never play MP anyways.

IMO SP and MP are not compatible since in SP unbalanced things can still be alot of fun. In MP we are back at the human psyche which is a battle with other minds over fairness (fairness can be translated to "ME ME ME").

 

[SacredDatura]

Can someone fill me in?

As far as I can tell from context, this is a feature that was revealed in the livestream. Am I correct in guessing that this new feature automatically merges any light ship fleet that is set to protect trade in the same trade node?

Haven't had time to check out the stream yet.

 

[ChildeR]

But that might make the attacker’s fleet vulnerable to a 3rd party or the extra micro might be deemed not worth it.

There's no "too much" micro for the AI if it's taught to go after trade fleets. Two fleets will also usually have their routes intersect so splitting isn't always even necessary.

My point was that if trade fleet sniping is thought to be a problem, it should be fixed instead of this partial crutch being left in just for it. (IMO just having to attach heavies to defend would be fine, though.)