Authority: Will decrees cost any resources (goods, pops, money) whatsoever?

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Vohen

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The shovel doesn't break when the peasant uses it to fill a hole, though.
Not one peasant filling one hole, but across an entire state over a month, you are going to need to buy some shovels after all.
And if no one in particular is providing them these tools, then those peasants will have to take it from their own pocked to do it.

As I said in the other thread on this topic, corvee was usually something like 2 or 3 days out of the year for the individual peasant. I don't see why that needs to have an economic impact in the game.
Then even a -1% output, pop growth, or taxes modifier would be due, that by itself would already be something.
The impact, even as small and overall insignificant as it may be, would put a step between "spending points" and "get effect", that's all I want.
I can clearly see, for myself at least, how this would make the game better, and see no way in which it would make the game worse.
 
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Spartakusbund

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Not one peasant filling one hole, but across an entire state over a month, you are going to need to buy some shovels after all.
And if no one in particular is providing them these tools, then those peasants will have to take it from their own pocked to do it.
Peasants have shovels, though. They don't need to buy them. Yes, perhaps a miniscule number of tools might be expended over the course of a decade as a peasant accidently jams it under a rock and breaks his shovelhead, but I don't think that needs to be modeled in game.
Then even a -1% output, pop growth, or taxes modifier would be due, that by itself would already be something.
The impact, even as small and overall insignificant as it may be, would put a step between "spending points" and "get effect", that's all I want.
I can clearly see, for myself at least, how this would make the game better, and see no way in which it would make the game worse.
I don't see why a -1% output modifier would be:
a) accurate. I don't see why there would be any impact on output. Peasants have a shit ton of free time.
b) an improvement from a gameplay perspective. I'm either not going to notice it, or its going to make the whole point of using corvee labor (getting infrastructure without having to pay) useless.
 
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Vohen

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Peasants have shovels, though. They don't need to buy them. Yes, perhaps a miniscule number of tools might be expended over the course of a decade as a peasant accidently jams it under a rock and breaks his shovelhead, but I don't think that needs to be modeled in game.
It's normal wear and tear, not something to consider on a small scale, but when talking about tens, and even hundreds of thousands of peasants during a longer period of time, it starts to become relevant.

a) accurate. I don't see why there would be any impact on output. Peasants have a shit ton of free time.
It doesn't have to be output.
If it's on their free time, unrest or pop growth would very well represent the situation.

b) an improvement from a gameplay perspective. I'm either not going to notice it, or its going to make the whole point of using corvee labor (getting infrastructure without having to pay) useless.
Besides the added realism, it gives depth to the choice.
If it's just spending points, sure, there are opportunity costs, but if you're interacting more deeply with the system and can clearly see a causality between your actions and their effects, it only enhances the simulation of the world.
 
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Vohen

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All in all, I imagine these decrees will be moddable, so that'll be probably the first thing I'll do before starting a campaign, alongside changing bureaucratic capacity to affect more than just taxes.
 
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Spartakusbund

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It's normal wear and tear, not something to consider on a small scale, but when talking about tens, and even hundreds of thousands of peasants during a longer period of time, it starts to become relevant.
Agree to disagree. I don't see that being a thing the game needs to model.
It doesn't have to be output.
If it's on their free time, unrest or pop growth would very well represent the situation.
Pop growth: Strong, strong disagree. That makes absolutely no sense. Again, we're talking about two to three days of service. That is not going to prevent you from boning your peasant wife and having peasant babies.
Unrest: While it hasn't been confirmed, I think its a safe bet that going over your Authority capacity will have a negative effect on POP loyalty, turmoil, etc.
Besides the added realism, it gives depth to the choice.
If it's just spending points, sure, there are opportunity costs, but if you're interacting more deeply with the system and can clearly see a causality between your actions and their effects, it only enhances the simulation of the world.
I think the choice is pretty clear. Either 1) you pay for basic infrastructure through the Authority system, in which case you either a) need to have a more authoritarian state (with accompanying gameplay challenges) or b) eat whatever the penalty for going over the limit is. Or you pay for basic infrastructure through the economic system, in which case you pay an economic cost.

Adding an unrest cost muddles the choice between a) and b). Adding an economic cost muddles the choice between 1) and 2).

All in all, I imagine these decrees will be moddable, so that'll be probably the first thing I'll do before starting a campaign, alongside changing bureaucratic capacity to affect more than just taxes.
We don't know what bonus you get for being under your admin cap. This could already be in the game.
 
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Will subsistence farming use any goods?
Unclear, but I would guess not. Peasants are only supposed to be marginally connected to the market (I'd guess by making limited purchases of non-food goods).

Which would make it especially odd that peasants would have to buy tools to fill in holes on a dirt road...
 
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I think Influence capacity as a diplomatic "mana" is okay.

Bureaucracy capacity is okay too but I think it should maybe work at a state (region) level, not at national level.

But I really dislike the Authority capacity, I think it's the most "mana" one of the 3, and feels like EU4 mana abstractions. But we don't have much information yet so let's wait and see how it exactly works.
 
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Unrest: While it hasn't been confirmed, I think its a safe bet that going over your Authority capacity will have a negative effect on POP loyalty, turmoil, etc.
It would be nice if this was confirmed, wouldn't it? As of now all we know is that authority affects enactment rate, anything else is just speculation.
And this I was also something I was talking about earlier in this thread:
The overall effect of authority may be, I have no issue with that, but is is the effect of these decrees tangible as well?

I think the choice is pretty clear. Either 1) you pay for basic infrastructure through the Authority system, in which case you either a) need to have a more authoritarian state (with accompanying gameplay challenges) or b) eat whatever the penalty for going over the limit is. Or you pay for basic infrastructure through the economic system, in which case you pay an economic cost.

Adding an unrest cost muddles the choice between a) and b). Adding an economic cost muddles the choice between 1) and 2).
This is, once again, about opportunity costs in the end, which is fine and dandy by itself, but as I said, seeing causality between your actions and their effects only enhances the simulation.
"spend points, get effect" isn't a design philosophy I've come to expect here, and isn't something I can get behind, so I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one as well.

We don't know what bonus you get for being under your admin cap. This could already be in the game.
Again, for all we know, it's just taxes, that's the only basis for information we have.
And still, I'll mod it to have adverse effects from being over capacity as well, think of the effects admin efficiency has in Vic2.
 
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Vohen

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Also, I have to say, it's understandable that we are somewhat bogged down on road maintenance, since that's the only example we have, but it wasn't my main point honestly.
As per the title of this thread, I meant to ask more broadly about decrees in general, so I'll quote myself from another thread:
Let's say it's fine for roads to only require points and nothing else whatsoever to maintain, but what about other decrees?
I know they haven't explained decrees yet, but from the sample they did explain (road maintenance), it's not big leap to consider.
That's why further clarification would be so useful right now.
 

Spartakusbund

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Again, for all we know, it's just taxes, that's the only basis for information we have.
How would a tax bonus for being over your admin cap work? Do you just have a higher effective tax rate (ie taking more money from POPs)? That sounds like it could be bad in certain situations. Does it create extra money? That sounds problematic too.
Also, I have to say, it's understandable that we are somewhat bogged down on road maintenance, since that's the only example we have, but it wasn't my main point honestly.
As per the title of this thread, I meant to ask more broadly about decrees in general, so I'll quote myself from another thread:
I think you'll have to wait a while to find out, sadly.
 

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How would a tax bonus for being over your admin cap work? Do you just have a higher effective tax rate (ie taking more money from POPs)? That sounds like it could be bad in certain situations. Does it create extra money? That sounds problematic too.
The effective tax rate in Vic2 was hardly ever 100%, so it's possible that under bCap would mean a bonus there.
Though, again, this is all just speculation, not worth considering really until we get an answer.
It's why I'm asking these question in the first place after all.

And as I said, I also don't feel a simple tax penalty is good enough for being over capacity as well, so that, at the very least, is something I'll be looking to mod.

I think you'll have to wait a while to find out, sadly.
I figured it was worth asking anyway, since decrees are central to the authority mechanic, which was already exposed in a DD.
And even if we don't get an answer here, it's still worth giving feedback to what was shown, if these worries turn out to already be addressed internally, and so pointless in the end, it's all fine by me.