Austria

[Miro_pl96]

Is it possible to be Austrians and play through the whole war, like can you decline Hitler? or would hitler just attack you and thats it(there is no way you can win against Germany in !936 as austria).
P.S I know that question is weird but i hope my point is clear.

 

[Mannstien]

Most likely if you decline the Anschluss if that's possible the troops march in and you get the Anschluss anyhow unless you can form some alliance's before hand or you on the off chance you pick A-historical mode and Germany doesn't follow that focus.

 

[J_Master]

Most likely if you decline the Anschluss if that's possible the troops march in and you get the Anschluss anyhow unless you can form some alliance's before hand or you on the off chance you pick A-historical mode and Germany doesn't follow that focus.

Even if you play ahistorical, the anschluss is a very early discision, and is nessesary for a whole lot of other things. It would be very hard to play as Austria

 

[Råttan]

I remember in HoI2, when I played Germany, the AI could acctually just decline Anschluss and offer alliance. Then I had to watch how I auto-accepted that, (and loaded last save.) Dont know about hoi3.

 

[aruon]

it would be an interesting thing to see if the NSDAP failed to usurp the austrofascists.

 

[Dalnar]

You can always try to focus on demoracy focuses and purge the fasist, then go for allies and try to survive 1939. Or you could go for local aliances and hope that the German AI will be intimitated by early war

 

[Nitan17]

IIRC when you get Anschluss event as Austria, you have 3 choices:
- Agree (get annexed)
- Disagree (war with Germany)
- Join the Axis

 

[Jaded Samurai]

I remember in HoI2, when I played Germany, the AI could acctually just decline Anschluss and offer alliance. Then I had to watch how I auto-accepted that, (and loaded last save.) Dont know about hoi3.

In HoI3, I played as Austria, and declined the Anschluss when it came, but used the Diplomacy feature to immediately ask Germany for peace, before it could attack me. This way, I stayed neutral until 1941, when the Axis invaded me anyway. Thus I became a Government-in-exile in Great Britain, and patiently built a Resistance network in occupied Austria. When British forces reached northern Italy, I launched a national uprising, liberating the country.
That's why, for me, it's important to not just be able to build Resistance networks in HoI4, but I would like to have the ability to launch uprisings.

 

[Shatterfury]

In HoI3, I played as Austria, and declined the Anschluss when it came, but used the Diplomacy feature to immediately ask Germany for peace, before it could attack me. This way, I stayed neutral until 1941, when the Axis invaded me anyway. Thus I became a Government-in-exile in Great Britain, and patiently built a Resistance network in occupied Austria. When British forces reached northern Italy, I launched a national uprising, liberating the country.
That's why, for me, it's important to not just be able to build Resistance networks in HoI4, but I would like to have the ability to launch uprisings.

Considering that the Austrians regarded themselves Germans back then that would have been hard.

 

[Premu]

Considering that the Austrians regarded themselves Germans back then that would have been hard.

They didn't actually see themselves as Germans, though, even if they had close ties to Germany. Not even the Austrian NSDAP aimed for the Anschluss, but only for getting to power and an alliance with Germany. But they were manipulated by Germany and paved the way for the Anschluss in the end.

 

[Thiomay]

Not even the Austrian NSDAP aimed for the Anschluss

They were acting on hitlers orders, destabalizing austria with acts of terrorism to prepare it for the Anschluss. The Anschluss itselve was already agreed upon in 1919 but the treaties of versailles and saint germain forbade it. Only the christlichsoziale (later vaterländische front) faction supported austria as an independed state. But even for them it wasn't on the basis of austria beeing it's own nation but on the idea of southern-catholic geman supremacy.

It was an option to just join the axis instead of getting anschlussed in hoi3 but i don't think this is very plausible. The alternativ option should be to become a puppet state, I don't see the nazis settling for anything less without a war or an alliance with Italy. With the right focus tree (I know it will be generic in the game) playing austria as a puppet waiting for it's chance could still be interesting. If austria was a german puppet it might endup administerating conquered neibouring terretories for germany, especially those it has historic and personal ties to. (austro-hungaria) Or there could be fokuses to start a german civil war between the north and the south. Lot's of potental there but nothing we are going to see in this release, if ever.

 

[Premu]

They were acting on hitlers orders, destabalizing austria with acts of terrorism to prepare it for the Anschluss. The Anschluss itselve was already agreed upon in 1919 but the treaties of versailles and saint germain forbade it. Only the christlichsoziale (later vaterländische front) faction supported austria as an independed state. But even for them it wasn't on the basis of austria beeing it's own nation but on the idea of southern-catholic geman supremacy.

Yes, they were acting on Hitler's orders. But Artur Seyß-Inquart, who was the leader of the Austrian NSDAP didn't know that the aim was the total annexion. After the Austrian Nazis did get control he actually tried to stop the invasion of the German forces, as his goals were fulfilled. But at this stage it was too late, as Hitler didn't just want an ally - Seyß-Inquart could just play along as he had no means to prevent the annexion.

The Austrians had a quite mixed identity in these days - they didn't see themselves as real Germans, but still had some strong ties to German culture. I don't believe that only a minority really wanted to join Germany. But once the German army was in Austria, and the people had to "vote" under the "protection" of the SS - you better play along.

 

[Thiomay]

The Austrians had a quite mixed identity in these days - they didn't see themselves as real Germans, but still had some strong ties to German culture. I don't believe that only a minority really wanted to join Germany. But once the German army was in Austria, and the people had to "vote" under the "protection" of the SS - you better play along.

Identity is constantly shifting and adepting and never as simple as nationalist would have you belive. If by Germans you mean Prussians than no they didn't see themselves as Germans. But the socialists could look past that because uniting the workers is more importaint than religious and dynastic feuds. And the Conservatives saw themselves as the real germans and the prussians as the fakes. Rethorically speaking there was no austrian nation and the german nation was very much present. As an austrian I know it's hard to wrap your head around that. As it compleatly conterdicts the opferthese based rethorik everyone here grew up with.

I don't know the details of powerstruggles within the NSDAP but AFAIK the twist was that austria was annexed compleatly and immediately. That's why I think becoming a puppet is a reasonabl option in game. But some level of autonomy during the Integreation process was all that could have been on the table. Maybe austrian nazi leadership wanted a state of there own to play around with, how would I know? But that doesn't tell us how the general austrian population felt. The NSDAP wasn't exactly basisdemokratisch (a grassroots democracy)

 

[Edbi]

Considering that the Austrians regarded themselves Germans back then that would have been hard.

I don't think so, there lived lot of Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians and other nationalities from astro-hungarian empire times

 

[Thiomay]

I don't think so, there lived lot of Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians and other nationalities from astro-hungarian empire times

Yes there where many nationalities in the austro-hungarian empire including Germans. Who like most othere nations in the austro-hungarian empire proclaimed there own national state: "Deutschösterreich" in the 1919 uprisings. It's weird from a modern perspectiv I know but german is what german speaking austrians called themselfes back than. The Word austira itselfe was tightly connected to the Habsburg dynastie, the house of austria. Keeping the name austria at all was up for debate at that point.

Sure there are Hungarian, Czech, Slovak, Slovenian and Burgenland Croat minorities even today. And the modern austrian nation which looks on the monarchy with some strange sence of nostalgia accepts them as austrians. But that is after the war and the "victim theory" had fundamentally changed austrian identity.

 

[Shatterfury]

They didn't actually see themselves as Germans, though, even if they had close ties to Germany. Not even the Austrian NSDAP aimed for the Anschluss, but only for getting to power and an alliance with Germany. But they were manipulated by Germany and paved the way for the Anschluss in the end.

Oh for crying out loud, Austrians led HRE for hundreds of years of course they saw themselves as Germans.

Enough with the revisionism already !

 

[Thiomay]

In a way yes but there is a fundamental difference between what being german ment to early modern germans and 19th/20th century germans. It's funny that you wrote the Austrians led the HRE for hundreds of years. That brings us right back to dynastic identity/loyalty as it was the Habsburg dynastie, the house of austria that led the HRE. The actual region Austria was just the core of the lands that they ruled directly not all of modern austria. Early modern people identified a lot with there imediate region or dynastie and the HRE states were largly autonomos. Being german in the 19th/20th century is fundamently different to this in the sence that it promoted the a unified nation and a unifed people instead of loyaltiy to local dynasties.

So it's not because of the HRE directly that they saw themselves as germans but the medieval and early modern past was still defining in a way. The austrian conservatives of the inerwar period more or less openly wanted to returne to a strange idealized version of the glorious german middle ages. While the Socialists wanted unify the german workers to overcome the inequality represented by monarchy and dynastic loyalty.

 

[Jaded Samurai]

Considering that the Austrians regarded themselves Germans back then that would have been hard.

Apparently, the game's AI didn't know that. It was fun playing at alternative history, though.

 

[BenKenobi]

They were acting on hitlers orders, destabalizing austria with acts of terrorism to prepare it for the Anschluss. The Anschluss itselve was already agreed upon in 1919 but the treaties of versailles and saint germain forbade it. Only the christlichsoziale (later vaterländische front) faction supported austria as an independed state. But even for them it wasn't on the basis of austria beeing it's own nation but on the idea of southern-catholic geman supremacy.

Together with the christian socialists there were other two parties against the unification - the communists and the legitimists; both being rather insignifican party at the time.

 

[blakh]

Yes there where many nationalities in the austro-hungarian empire including Germans. Who like most othere nations in the austro-hungarian empire proclaimed there own national state: "Deutschösterreich" in the 1919 uprisings. It's weird from a modern perspectiv I know but german is what german speaking austrians called themselfes back than. The Word austira itselfe was tightly connected to the Habsburg dynastie, the house of austria. Keeping the name austria at all was up for debate at that point.

Sure there are Hungarian, Czech, Slovak, Slovenian and Burgenland Croat minorities even today. And the modern austrian nation which looks on the monarchy with some strange sence of nostalgia accepts them as austrians. But that is after the war and the "victim theory" had fundamentally changed austrian identity.

Well, they would always have been accepted as Austrians. They just wouldn't have been accepted as Germans. German was a nationality, Austrian was a political fact. And I don't see why considering yourself a German would neccessarily mean supporting the Anschluss. Liechtenstein had being Germin in its hymn until recently; still they didn't wan't to join the Reich. San Marino people very probably consider themselves Italians; that doesn't mean they want to join the Italian state. The idea that feeling like you belong to a nation is the same as feeling that you should belong to the same country is itself deeply nationalist.