Austria Multiplayer Question

[Cypher000]

Hail everyone me and 3 other m8s are gonna start a multiplayer game just us 4 we will be playing as Castille, France, England and me as Austria i was wondering should i leave the HRE and go solo as had a try in single player as austria and trying to unit HRE seems a bit of a pain un sure be more of a pain in a multi.

So was wondering what do u lot think should i stay in the HRE? What should i be doing to unit it fast if i do?

Or should i leave it and go solo taking over italy and the bulkans maybe a bit of colonizing?

what would be the best strat to make a strong Austria in a MP game? (most experienced player is france so when units will be very tough un prob stop me from forming HRE if stay in)

your help will be most welcome as at moment thinking of solo not in HRE

 

[stnikolauswagne]

Dont go for forming the HRE. Your best bet is getting a Bavarian PU and the Aquilean Gold provinces early on, together with the HRE title.
After that slowly PU and vassalize your way into germany, make deals with England and/or Spain to keep France out of the lowlands or at least germany and Italy. Regarding italy: Its a pain in the a** to take, but its definitely possible and probably your best route of expansion. Another way to go could be anatolia, which is surprisingly rich and distant enough. Later on just try to keep france confined and expand into the east to get more provinces for CC's.

 

[Cypher000]

ok cool how do i get these PUs is it just mary and leave it as if it is i do that and never see a PU come from it? =[

 

[anubisfike]

You don't seem very experienced, Austria is probably not the best choice for you. If you don't actually know how to easily create a PU you can't really do much as Austria. I'm sure there's some guide around here though but sadly I don't know where.

 

[unmerged(463186)]

You don't seem very experienced, Austria is probably not the best choice for you. If you don't actually know how to easily create a PU you can't really do much as Austria. I'm sure there's some guide around here though but sadly I don't know where.

Huh? Austria is easily in one of the best positions to expand at the start of the game, regardless of royal marriages and personal unions. They have rich provinces with massive manpower values and extremely awesome missions.

 

[stnikolauswagne]

Huh? Austria is easily in one of the best positions to expand at the start of the game, regardless of royal marriages and personal unions. They have rich provinces with massive manpower values and extremely awesome missions.

But thats beside the point. If you want to play austria "right" in MP you need to become a force rivaling france pretty quickly, and that is not as easy as it might sound, even with the superb austrian position.

 

[anubisfike]

Huh? Austria is easily in one of the best positions to expand at the start of the game, regardless of royal marriages and personal unions. They have rich provinces with massive manpower values and extremely awesome missions.

You have one, MAYBE two missions that allow you to expand in the early game. Taking three provinces in northern Italy and maybe vassalizing Burgundy through mission, which France in any case won't allow you to do without a fight. What are these extremely awesome missions you speak of? The PU missions for Bohemia and Hungary don't fire until 1500-something so that's out of the case too. You shouldn't take a lot of infamy either since you likely won't be elected as emperor then.

 

[unmerged(463186)]

You have one, MAYBE two missions that allow you to expand in the early game. Taking three provinces in northern Italy and maybe vassalizing Burgundy through mission, which France in any case won't allow you to do without a fight. What are these extremely awesome missions you speak of? The PU missions for Bohemia and Hungary don't fire until 1500-something so that's out of the case too. You shouldn't take a lot of infamy either since you likely won't be elected as emperor then.

Can't the Bohemian vassalization mission fire as long as you border one another? I've almost always gotten the Northern Italy mission, and then the Bohemian mission after (well, sometimes after the generic "Make X Elector Vote For Us!" missions). That allows you to build up an even stronger base from which to challenge Bohemia from, and then you get a strong vassal. If you are lucky, you'll get your Hungarian missions earlier, too. I've never noticed a timeline for them, though that could simply have been me being blissfully unaware.

And you've already mentioned the Burgundian vassalization mission. That one is pretty nice, all things considered.

Also, the fact that he is playing with friends does change the situation. If they are actually nice, decent people, they'll help teach their n00bie buddy instead of crushing him at the first chance they get. Or, they may all be at an equal skill level, making this entrie discussion mostly moot. France's early success also depends on his skill level in relation to the English player. All in all, I'd say that Mr. Austria has some time before France comes knocking at his door. I don't think this is the type of multiplayer game where people are going to be at each others throats by making cold, calculated decisions about how they can best expand.

 

[anubisfike]

Even if he will be allowed to vassalize Burgundy (if France is a complete noob) he will still sit around until 1500+ until he gets his next missions that allow (indirect) conquest. The simple truth here is that Austria is not really a noob friendly country and it's country specific missions give it 3 extra provinces in a "normal" multiplayer game unless, as said before, France is a complete noob. Austria doesn't have very good missions and any medium skilled player can easily PU both Bohemia and Hungary before the missions become available to do so.

Maybe the missions aren't even for PU'ing and I'm mistaken, if that's the case they are even worse since he would have to diplo annex a large country in the HRE to acquire the provs and that's after 1500.

 

[Pewt]

Huh? Austria is easily in one of the best positions to expand at the start of the game, regardless of royal marriages and personal unions. They have rich provinces with massive manpower values and extremely awesome missions.

This just isn't true at all.

Poland, Muscovy/Novgorod, France, England, Castille, Milan, Ottomans, and so on are better choices if you just want to blob. Austria played properly needs to use Personal Unions or it will never catch up to France in a reasonable time span.

Edit: Guess I should probably elaborate on this a bit.

The HRE is both a great advantage and an annoyance to be in. Being the emperor gives absurd benefits (which Austria wants and needs), and the PU coring mechanics are great too (as are imperial integrity and such). Leaving the empire basically makes you into a smaller France/Turkey/etc with worse CBs, and blobbing normally while remaining in it gives you too much infamy to be the emperor (and the +0.25infamy/province from unlawful territory kills you pretty quickly). PUs are a natural solution since they're quick, easy, give you cores, give you massive prestige which you can use to improve your SoI, and don't cost infamy.

France's early success also depends on his skill level in relation to the English player.

England fighting France, especially in such a small game, makes little sense unless Burgundy is played.

All in all, I'd say that Mr. Austria has some time before France comes knocking at his door. I don't think this is the type of multiplayer game where people are going to be at each others throats by making cold, calculated decisions about how they can best expand.

If it won't be played optimally then fine, but in that case you might as well say "do whatever you want". Austria needs to expand with PUs if it wants to be effective.

 

[unmerged(463186)]

This just isn't true at all.

Poland, Muscovy/Novgorod, France, England, Castille, Milan, Ottomans, and so on are better choices if you just want to blob. Austria played properly needs to use Personal Unions or it will never catch up to France in a reasonable time span.

Poland, Moscowy, Novgorod all put him in Eastern Tech, and throw him against the Golden Horde. Ditto with the Ottomans, save for slightly better tech and the Timurids instead of the Golden Horde. I would say that is far less friendly to the comparitively comfortable position that Austria has.

Milan and Castille are both good options, with the ability to form Italy and Spain (respectively) easily and early.

Edit: Guess I should probably elaborate on this a bit.

I should, too. I am not saying that Austria is the best nation for a learning player, but that it would be a fine nation if you consider the player's circumstances (a game of friends). I am sure his buddies will be willing to teach him in-game.

Were he joining a MP game set-up on the forums with players of varying skill levels, I would certainly persuade him to take a different nation.

The HRE is both a great advantage and an annoyance to be in. Being the emperor gives absurd benefits (which Austria wants and needs), and the PU coring mechanics are great too (as are imperial integrity and such). Leaving the empire basically makes you into a smaller France/Turkey/etc with worse CBs, and blobbing normally while remaining in it gives you too much infamy to be the emperor (and the +0.25infamy/province from unlawful territory kills you pretty quickly). PUs are a natural solution since they're quick, easy, give you cores, give you massive prestige which you can use to improve your SoI, and don't cost infamy.

It should be mentioned that the Imperial Throne can be snatched away from AI Bohemia pretty easily.

England fighting France, especially in such a small game, makes little sense unless Burgundy is played.

AI Burgundy goes to war with France pretty regularly. The chances only increase with the more unique missions that the Burgundy AI has completed. I could see England jumping in if he considers France a threat (especially if France is the most experienced of the group).

If it won't be played optimally then fine, but in that case you might as well say "do whatever you want". Austria needs to expand with PUs if it wants to be effective.

Oh, don't pull that crap. If he's playing with friends for a bit of fun, I bet the furthest thing from his mind is an optimal Austria build (ESPECIALLY if he is new). He wants to be Austria. Let him. Don't discourage him - be helpful and give him tips. The number of negative nancies in this thread is just insane. You're all thinking in terms of "Multiplayer game with random forumites who have played the game for hundreds of hours," but that is clearly not the situation the OP describes.

 

[Pewt]

Poland, Moscowy, Novgorod all put him in Eastern Tech, and throw him against the Golden Horde. Ditto with the Ottomans, save for slightly better tech and the Timurids instead of the Golden Horde. I would say that is far less friendly to the comparitively comfortable position that Austria has.

Tribute, or a vassal cushion in Poland's case.

AI Burgundy goes to war with France pretty regularly. The chances only increase with the more unique missions that the Burgundy AI has completed. I could see England jumping in if he considers France a threat (especially if France is the most experienced of the group).

AI Burgundy is not a threat though.

Oh, don't pull that crap. If he's playing with friends for a bit of fun, I bet the furthest thing from his mind is an optimal Austria build (ESPECIALLY if he is new). He wants to be Austria. Let him. Don't discourage him - be helpful and give him tips. The number of negative nancies in this thread is just insane. You're all thinking in terms of "Multiplayer game with random forumites who have played the game for hundreds of hours," but that is clearly not the situation the OP describes.

I think you misunderstand. What I mean is that if people don't want to follow effective strategies then that's fine, but talking about strategy is thus kind of pointless in that scenario since they specifically don't care about being optimal.

 

[unmerged(463186)]

Tribute, or a vassal cushion in Poland's case.

I have never had the Golden Horde not be eager for war. The hordes are terribly warmongering. You may be able to buy (literally) time with tribute, but they will inevitably be back pretty soon. If you are new to the game, you probably won't be prepared for them when they do - excepting, perhaps, with Muscowy. Them missions be godly. Still, you are then put on the journey of Westernization, leaving you at an inherent disadvantage.

AI Burgundy is not a threat though.

I am under the impression that none of them have a ton of experience, though the France player has the most out of all of them. To a group of newbies, Burgundy, especially HRE Burgundy, can be a threat.

I think you misunderstand. What I mean is that if people don't want to follow effective strategies then that's fine, but talking about strategy is thus kind of pointless in that scenario since they specifically don't care about being optimal.

You can be strategic without being optimal - you can have fun, do well, and not abuse Austria's gamey diplomacy boost. If the OP is still interested in being Austria, I think we should help by discussing personal unions, diplomatic vassalization (very useful for dominating the Imperial throne), and Unlawful Territory penalties, etc.

 

[king hannibal]

Answering the OP's question about getting PUs is to get a royal marriage and claim throne, or (if you can) fabricate claims.

Austria's not too tough, if you play it right.

Also, I would recommend staying in the empire, so you don't get owned by the BBB.

 

[Pewt]

I have never had the Golden Horde not be eager for war. The hordes are terribly warmongering. You may be able to buy (literally) time with tribute, but they will inevitably be back pretty soon. If you are new to the game, you probably won't be prepared for them when they do - excepting, perhaps, with Muscowy. Them missions be godly. Still, you are then put on the journey of Westernization, leaving you at an inherent disadvantage.

If the horde DoWs through tribute it generally picks the weakest nation targetable, which shouldn't be the player. In addition, the horde cannot break a proper vassal cushion, hence why it's a vassal cushion; whenever a war with the horde starts it immediately ends.

For anyone wondering how to vassal cushion: Avoid bordering the horde directly; only border it through vassals/PUs. In addition, have at least one vassal/PU allied to you who does not border the horde. As soon as that vassal/PU is called into the horde war (which is automatic if they're allied), the war will end. This is, for obvious reasons, most practical for Poland.

You can be strategic without being optimal - you can have fun, do well, and not abuse Austria's gamey diplomacy boost. If the OP is still interested in being Austria, I think we should help by discussing personal unions, diplomatic vassalization (very useful for dominating the Imperial throne), and Unlawful Territory penalties, etc.

It's not to do with any austria-specific bonuses; it's to do with the fact that Austria needs to be the emperor to survive against an aggressive France, and to do that you need to keep your infamy low.

 

[unmerged(487181)]

For anyone wondering how to vassal cushion: Avoid bordering the horde directly; only border it through vassals/PUs. In addition, have at least one vassal/PU allied to you who does not border the horde. As soon as that vassal/PU is called into the horde war (which is automatic if they're allied), the war will end. This is, for obvious reasons, most practical for Poland.

THAT'S HOW THAT WORKED. I couldn't figure that out for the life of me in an old Byzantium game. Bosnia, Serbia and Montenegro kept getting called in! Brilliant.

So yes, as Poland, make it a priority to subjugate Mazovia. That's probably your easiest initial non-horde-bordering vassal. You still have to suffer through one war, though, because you don't want to pay tribute and the horde probably won't let you concede defeat until Moldavia croaks... So what's the plan, then, mobilize everything against the Horde to start, try to concentrate forces in Moldavia to redirect the Horde to Lithuania, get a concession of defeat and use the five year grace period to subjugate Mazovia?

 

[Vainfall]

THAT'S HOW THAT WORKED. I couldn't figure that out for the life of me in an old Byzantium game. Bosnia, Serbia and Montenegro kept getting called in! Brilliant.

So yes, as Poland, make it a priority to subjugate Mazovia. That's probably your easiest initial non-horde-bordering vassal. You still have to suffer through one war, though, because you don't want to pay tribute and the horde probably won't let you concede defeat until Moldavia croaks... So what's the plan, then, mobilize everything against the Horde to start, try to concentrate forces in Moldavia to redirect the Horde to Lithuania, get a concession of defeat and use the five year grace period to subjugate Mazovia?

No. As soon as you vassalize Mazovia, ally them and call them into the war. The war will immediately end.

 

[unmerged(487181)]

Oh, really? That's awesome. Good to know.

Added note, I remember reading that this was going to be removed in 5.2. Is that true?

 

[Maggo]

I wrote this to another thread some time ago, try testing the PU strategies in SP, they're really powerful. Oh and read the damn eu3 wiki

Spoiler

You can claim throne's if the succesion isn't clear. This can be done with the diplo-option (see the black-head-and-crown icon top of your screen for potential targets). Other option is the spy mission (target's found from Ledger page 1, arrange by ascending legitimazy, below 50 and you're go).

Diplo-option:
- RM
- Claim throne
- DoW with the new CB or optionally break the RM and DoW or wait your luck and see if the ruler dies w/o an heir
You need 84% war score to get a PU. Claiming takes 25 or so prestige which you get back if you succesfully get a PU and the peace deal gives you additional 40 prestige. You also need higher prestige than your target and over 50 legitimazy. Notice that claiming a throne hurts your relations by 100 points with EVERYONE you've got a RM with.

Spy mission:
- Send spy
- DoW
You need 90% war score for this one. 40 prestige and the mission doesn't hurt your relations. If discovered gives a small amount of infamy and the usual spy related relations+prestige dump.

Generally you don't want to RM unless you PU or your ruler is about to die. Also in PU wars PU members are always alliance leaders, so you don't have to mess with emperor/France etc. every damn time. Legitimazy can be obtained from the Grand Marshal advisor. Remember to spred your Sphere of Influence as you'll have shitloads of prestige from PU's. You get cores when you inherit HRE provinces as a HRE member and provinces that are within your culture group, in both cases the inherited also has to have cores on said provinces. Unless you Integrate (much like diplo-annex, no cores) PU's are infamy free way to expand.

EDIT: Oh and you need >0 prestige and relations with your partners also you have to have larger army (or juniors insult spam you) to keep your PU's. Diplo skill is most efficient way to secure an inheritance, there's plenty of it in SoI spam. High prestige, trust and relations don't hurt either. Trust is a bitch to increase so don't bother with it. Both partners need to be in peace when your leader dies for inheritance to happen. Inheriting becomes more likely within time, but with 20+ SoI you're likely to inherit smaller nations. Larger countries (province count) are much less likely to be inherited.

 

[Nunn45]

From the Mp games ive seen, Austria's usual strategy is to PU like mad everyone it can in Central Europe, become Emperor and try to keep anyone else from messing with future conquests.

Also a few invasions of Ottomans if its not a Player, for good measure.