Austria and AI

[unmerged(177849)]

Austria and IA

This is getting a bit frustrating. An otherwise very successful Austria game is marred by slow passage of reforms.

I think I'm taking advantage of all IA opportunities. But was a slow journey to passing reforms has come to a dead stop at the reformation. It's 1545 and I still haven't passed the 4th reform. I made a couple of small mistakes, but even without them I would probably not have passed the 4th reform, just have been closer to doing so. Now Saxony is trying to force yet another nation to turn protestant - and with a strong group of nations - mostly Catholic! allied in the war with them so that intervening would trash my manpower & prevent me from hitting France again for a few years. All that just to maintain my current 25 IA. Very frustrating.

Any advice?

 

[Tub]

My Austria game was completely reliant on a PU with Hungary, and cultivating an alliance network with the three B's - Burgundy, Brandenburg, and Bohemia. The former is really good, because it'll mostly join your wars, and if you have an alliance+royal marriage, but their monarch dies, you'll probably get their lands as well, making you much stronger yourself.

To be totally honest, as Austria you have to be thinking of IA from the very start. Be demanding unlawful territory, and using your Imperial Liberation CBs as much as possible - this not only gets your IA up, but also keeps all the HRE princes small, meaning that you won't have any Palatinate blobs, or a huge Oldenburg to deal with in the alter stages of the game - meaning that when the Reformation comes a-knocking, you'll be able to either Enforce Religion without a war (OPMs tend to submit pretty easily), or be able to Force Religion in just one war.

Also, why are you going for France? Just concentrate on the HRE until you revoke the Priveligia, and then your vassals will do the work for you - no need to worry about Manpower then. This was my first game as Austria, and boy was it a learning experience. I'm about to apply my learnt knowledge to an Ottomans game, for reduced coring costs... tee hee hee Dat -98%

But, for your current game, just try to Enforce Religion, I suppose, and try to make member states release various nations. Try to get some good alliances (Denmark is good if it's still got the PU's) and generally beat up everybody you can. If manpower's an issue, hire mercenaries, and take money from the people you attack in the peace deal.

(Just to clarify, you get the Hungarian PU by making a RM with them on Day 1 of the game. They'll convert to your dynasty.)

 

[unmerged(177849)]

That's all good advice, but, not your fault, not that helpful for my current game. I've been making member states release states, but it just isn't enough. And enforce religion is problematical because 4 electors - including 2 of my supporters - are protestant. I could, I guess, ally a couple of the recalcitrant Catholic elctors and just forget about the protestants, except for Bohemia, but part of the problem is that there aren't that many protestant nations aside from the 4 electors to enforce religion on.

France has not IMO interfered much if at all with generating IA.

I have a PU with Hungary (and Bohemia, and Milan), but through missions (Milan came with Bohemia).

Really at this point I may need to wait for Hungary to be integrated, annex my French vassals (you don't think I'm coring those provinces myself? ) and add about 40 provinces to the empire for 44 points (Austria bonus ftw). Though ideally I'd save that for after the 5th reform. Getting there is the problem.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

Why don't you declare war on all the electors with the wrong religion? Enforcing religious unity is a very limited tool, generally you're better off using mainly wars to enforce said unity.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Why don't you declare war on all the electors with the wrong religion? Enforcing religious unity is a very limited tool, generally you're better off using mainly wars to enforce said unity.

I may have to. The biggest problem with that is going to be maintaining my PU with Bohemia through that. And of course I can't force them to change religion and maintain the PU.

In retrospect, the PU with Bohemia, as advantageous as it is in some respects, is really constraining my options.

 

[Xara]

Anytime a member refuses your demand to enforce unity, you get a religious CB against them. Tell the elector to switch and when they refuse, attack them over it and force them into line.

I don't see how Bohemia is restraining you. You can't do anything about Czech provinces becoming Protestant in any game.

 

[mozgriken]

Firstly, in my games I've had the consistent bug of Austria not receiving IA for winning defensive wars vs foreign aggressors. This has been the case for both my and AI Austria. If you are experiencing this bug as well, it is a serious impediment to advancing reforms.

That being said, I don't think you should be too frustrated with your progress. In my experience, once the reformation hits, you can expect it's spreading through northern nations to eat away at your IA. Year 1545 sounds like you are nearly in the clear.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Firstly, in my games I've had the consistent bug of Austria not receiving IA for winning defensive wars vs foreign aggressors. This has been the case for both my and AI Austria. If you are experiencing this bug as well, it is a serious impediment to advancing reforms.

That being said, I don't think you should be too frustrated with your progress. In my experience, once the reformation hits, you can expect it's spreading through northern nations to eat away at your IA. Year 1545 sounds like you are nearly in the clear.

I don't have that bug, but one result of my strength & expansion to the west (as I said, the game is otherwise going quite well), combined with some luck (a weak Denmark) mean very few calls to defend the empire. None in over 50 years. Well, there was one which I stupidly refused (I had my reasons - would have meant fighting the Ottomans when my manpower was low & I think I was in another war - but in retrospect I should have answered it anyway) - in retrospect, that MIGHT have gotten me to the 4th reform.

Otherwise, yes, you are likely correct. Patience. If I can just complete the 5th reform, I think I will be fine. At that point, with the personal union with Hungary maturing, and annexation of French vassals, I can get the 6th reform mostly by adding Hungarian and French provinces to the empire - and then the 7th reform by releasing a ton of free vassals.

I am a little curious about what happens when I integrate Bohemia, assuming I haven't already passed the 6th reform. Do the other electors suddenly hate me? If not, that could be a golden opportunity - integrate them, release as a vassal, and force a religion change.

 

[Xara]

I am a little curious about what happens when I integrate Bohemia, assuming I haven't already passed the 6th reform. Do the other electors suddenly hate me? If not, that could be a golden opportunity - integrate them, release as a vassal, and force a religion change.

That's not going to work unless its been 100+ years since Protestantism started. Czech & Catholic provinces under a Catholic ruler are frequently hit by the 'Hussite Traditions' event which flips a province to Protestant. This is why Bohemia ends up Protestant every game.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

That's not going to work unless its been 100+ years since Protestantism started. Czech & Catholic provinces under a Catholic ruler are frequently hit by the 'Hussite Traditions' event which flips a province to Protestant. This is why Bohemia ends up Protestant every game.

I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have taken the Bohemia PU mission - though I guess it will pay off in the long run.

I'm a tad grumpy about my game - I know, a silly reaction - as I took Austria in large measure to "rush" to revoke the privelgia, and it isn't quite working out that way. Busy day, so I likely won't be able to test any of this out till this evening.

 

[Xara]

I've had this problem before where almost nobody (France, Denmark) wants to attack due to your own army plus all the alliances you can bring in since you have emperor relationships, diplo relationships, and austrian relationships bonuses.

Someone suggested lowering your army maintenance to nothing (just don't stand on any provinces with potential rebels[and don't forget to raise it when needed]) since the AI calculates your strength based on current morale and stuff, not potential max. That seemed to work to make them think a war is more likely to succeed.

 

[gaius valerius]

What year are you? And what is slow progress My Ironman has reached the year 1710 and I've obtained erbkaisertum and need only 2 more reforms to form the HRE. Game is pretty much over though as I've just gotten a PU on France and my empire has Bohemia and Hungary incorporated and there is basically not a single state left that can take me on. Hope my kings die often.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

What year are you? And what is slow progress My Ironman has reached the year 1710 and I've obtained erbkaisertum and need only 2 more reforms to form the HRE. Game is pretty much over though as I've just gotten a PU on France and my empire has Bohemia and Hungary incorporated and there is basically not a single state left that can take me on. Hope my kings die often.

Around 1545. I had hoped for faster progress - maybe somewhat unrealistically. But, while I wasn't aiming for a WC, I WAS hoping to take most of Europe and Asia. And revoke the privlegia is the key to massive expansion as Austria.

I still hope, perhaps unrealistically, to revoke before 1600. Okay, perhaps very unrealistically, though the above plans for reforms 6 and 7 should make those go very quickly after 4 and 5. I hope. Then 200 plus years of crazy expansion, fueled by infinite vassals and low(ish) coring time.

Edit - you really don't want to form the HRE until you're ready to stop playing. You're massively more powerful with the privelgia revoked but not forming the empire.

Second edit - just for perspective, my first game as HRE I revoked the privlegia as The Commonwealth around 1600 or maybe alittle late - I just thought than Austria would be significantly faster.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

So between forcing a couple of HRE nations to be released, adding a few provinces to the empire (including a few, but not the majority, of Hungary's recently integrated provinces), and releasing one HRE nation of my own (Dauphine) it looks like I'll pass the 4th reform in 1558 - finally! Now the fifth reform is key, as I think I have a pretty good plan for passing 6 and 7 fairly quickly after that. So hopefully I'll revoke the privelegia before 1600 after all.

I haven't followed the reduced maintenance advice because I am pretty sure even with that no one will attack. France is a shell of itself, Denmark weak, Poland not bad but not ready to challenge me ... no other real candidates. Though no harm in trying it - will even net me a few ducats.

Plotting the end game on France. Next war I can have them release a few minors - not many left but 3 or 4 should make them small enough- vassalize them in the war after that - then feed back the released provinces to them. Then I can think about starting to carve up my long time ally Spain, which is fairly strong but, as often the case, has kept too few troops at home.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Okay, I just assumed that forced military conversion would have the same negative effects as diplomatic conversion. It doesn't. That solves a lot of problems. Thanks for that suggestion.

 

[mozgriken]

Regarding Bohemia, I am a fan of pushing the PU off the top. They always go protestant, but when playing Austria I take religious idea as 2nd group. Converting provinces takes typically 7-12 months once you've filled the idea group.
Integrating Bohemia early into the reformation eats up all the space between Austria and Brandenburg/Saxony, negating all that prot blue territory poisoning bordering provinces. It also puts you that much closer to dow vs typically-protestant north germany.

 

[frolix42]

By far the easiest way to increase IA as Austria is to release Stryia as a vassal many times. Gives you 20 IA and you can start to annex it in 10 years and repeat.
Is it an exploit? Sure is! I hope they nerf it in the future.

Make sure you don't build anything in the Stryian provinces because they get burned down when you annex it.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Thanks in part to advice in this thread, and in part to some ideas of my own, the Privelgia was revoked in 1567 with all 52 princes voting yes. (I didn't need to use the Styria exploit; the main helpful advice was about using forced (i.e., military not diplomatic) religion changes.)

France is almost all mine. Next up Spain and ... the east. Russia hasn't blobbed quite as much as it sometimes does, but enough that it may be a challenge. I may hold of on the Ottomans for a bit, or, who knows, with the might of the Empire behind me, maybe not.