Australian Group Core Game

[mike8472]

The War is joined. Italy entered the Axis right after Germany DOW on spain and launched a massive invasion. Uk intelligence reports 24 Panzers & 24 Infantry supported by 12 Tactical bombers and 12 Fighters. This operation is clearly aimed at trying to secure Gibralter. At the same time the Aixs is putting preasure on the Egyptian front with italian forces massed there, at least 30 Divisions, with some 3 german armour just arrived as session ended. With the continued threat to the home islands ever present UK forces are stretched thin, but so far Britain remains undefeated in battle.

Germany DOW on Norway at the start of the session. The Royal dispatched fleets straight away to try and intercept and German fleets trying to invade. One fleet spotted a buildup of Tranports squadrons in the former land know as denmark. This good fortune good not be over looked, the RAF dispatched 12 Squadrons of spitfires with drop tanks for a long range strike mission to hit the tranports while there were at there airfields. The mission was a complete success with the Transports completly destroyed. A crucial loss for Germany as alot of IC went into them, and it is unknow if the paratroopers where onboard waiting departure, if so it was truely the RAF's finest hour. Norway was saved for the moment since Germany was relying on thoses Paras to secure a port and then rush reinforcements.

Time will tell if the UK can absurb all the preasure on many fronts. It looms as either our greatest moment in history or our darkest hour.

 

[Majorball]

Italy?

Well it should be an enjoyable game for you Mike. When the Axis do not go after the UK you can mass heaps in Africa. Makes for a good game for the Allies. Was going to ask for 6 fighters for Africa from the germans but against 12 Allied fighters this is a waste of time 12v6 is no contest. the Italians are just waiting to get wiped out. their ships are still WW1 vintage so they cant leave port. There should be some allowance for more troops in Africa if the Germans do not launch sealion. In a couple of weeks the Allies went from 5 divisions in eygpt to 24. Considering its a good 3 or 4 weeks for transports to usually get thru the med or cape horn it was a magical build up by the Allies(one of the reasons I think divisions should be shipped to remote locations.)

things to consider for future games are some sort of trading of techs. The Italians will still be easy beats with tech trades because they have such a poor economy. At the moment they are Pathetic and cant really do much at all. I will just waste my time and turn up suppose turn the PC on and watch TV. All the restrictions you guys put on the game are on the Axis. If the Axis does not launch sealion than I think all these other restrictions on troops deployements ,trades techs etc should be dropped to make a decent game.

When i played Uk it was said I wasnt good enough didnt buuild the right things bla bla bla. Now we have all these restrictions on Axis troops to Africa when I play the Italians. Seems to me rules to suit others all the time.

 

[unmerged(34422)]

Italy isn't out of it, war just begun. Use some time to build up.


Also, I agree with the rule of troops to remote locations. I don't think the UK should deploy in Africa directly, it's unrealistic.

 

[Majorball]

Mass heaps for what? I cant transport them anywhere? Just use them on the beaches ? Well that will be fun... The Uk should be on the ropes this part of the game. But nah just as I feared 20 odd divisions pop up the moment I have any ground units in the area. Where did they come from hiding in the desert?


And I should be allowed at least 12 Axis fighters so as to at least gain air superioty for a short while. My planes are just gathering dust.


I am getting tho the stage where I was a few months ago when it really not worth wasteing time on this version of the game.


edited by gzav - Please read the Double posts sticky.

 

[unmerged(25040)]

Sympathy for Ball

I have total sympathy for MBall. Especially his comment about being 'advised'; about what he should have built after a game loss. What a hide? Mike - you are a strange man. You have been playing axis for the best part of 3-6 mths now - you have had victory after victory based upon restrictive allies rules and favourable axis rules - it really irks me that you can advise Ball like this. You have had 12 panzer div and as much tac air fighting either Joel or me as the UK!! And your argued strongly their case! Now its what? different?

I have an excellent example of this ( aside Ethiopia x 2!)- remember when I played Germany (Only once!) and you (as UK) took control and created the Polish 'Blob' in Warsaw -which means u wdr to a mega city stack. YOU admitted later it was unrealistic and gamey. Please explain why you did it again!??? You agreed it was an error! You were also insistent when you played axis that the UK could NOT control France! Oh sorry - its Joels fault as he wrote some rules in the forum! Ok... Convenient...

I agree with Ball - the UK should ship its units, as should I when I reinforce the islands. India is different and should be a production base. Japan should be from homeland like me. Also Germany should be trading tech 100% now its allied with Ball.

My greatest gripe with this game - still is Realism. Even Joel - who I respect so much as player and friend - and I have occasional differences over this. Of course units cant appear out of the desert" its ludicrous.

Note I will not have massive stacks in Guam and Wake either - if I have to lose and be realsitic then I ll cope the hubris from Mike and retain self respect.

 

[Majorball]

Lets not get into a slanging match..I am only adding things I think will make a better game. For one its february 1940...24 Italian divisions are facing off against 24 UK divisions including armour(2 weeks before there was 5 divisions). Dont have to put money on it to see who is going to get the better of that battle. What I am saying is if the Axis do not launch sealion than restrictions on AFrica should be thrown out. The reason beeing is the UK can deploy unlimited troops there knowing the Axis is not going after the UK. But the Axis is restricted rom matching them due to a restriction on forces. 6 fighters is a joke...what hope have they got against a stack of 12 UK fighters. At least make it worthwhile for the Axis and allow a stack of 12 german fighters to match the UK. Once at war tech trades should be allowed at least with the Italians. They will never catch up but at least give them some hope. At the moment its stack the beaches and watch the rest of you guys go at it. I admit during the war the Italian Navy wasnt much chop but still the Allies feared it. At the moment the UK can tech up really high while the Italians do not have that capability. As such the gap is so wide that Italain ships are a waste of time. At the start of 1936 uk ships and Italians ships are near what they should be tech wise...the uk is superior. Come war they are not only superior they have a huge huge advantage more than realistically possible. The Italian economy is so poor they cant even build naval planes at 13 IC a pop and 240 days to build. The UK navy can roam the MED without threat from planes or ships. This core MoD has made these things too expensive for a small economy like the Italians. And on top of this the Allies dont have to ship units into Africa..they just appear out of thin air so they dont even need to transport thru the med.

 

[unmerged(25040)]

Game

No slanging match - I enjoy the game and I enjoy playing Mike and Munster. Just looking for more reality like you.

I reckon limited tp and air German assistance to North Africa is realistic and uk tps should be shipped in.

Full tech trade once at war.

Japan will be decisive in the game. Its a good game and has a long way to go.

Munsters rebuild with Wehrmacht will be the key. Joel is wily and cunning.

Dont fear me - I have no MP! Yet!

 

[Majorball]

We all know there are basic flaws in the game...If the Germans prepare from 1936 for Sealion there is nothing any UK player can do to prevent it. We all know this. The Uk player can expect an invasion end of 1939. The only way the UK will not fall is if Germany does not attempt it. Saying this the resources and units required are expensive and will hurt any later campaign in the war especially against the Soviets.

In this game had Sealion been attempted all those divisions that popped out of the desert sand would have popped out in the UK thats for sure. Lets give our ships and Subs something else to do rather than just sit in stacks of 12 hoping to meet each other for a fight. Lets give them a reason to fight by attacking transport convoys which are transporting troops to hot spots around the world. Give the Allies a reason for holding places like Malta. In this game Malta means nothing. If the allies wanted to transport troops to africa quickly thru the Med they would have to place aircraft there and have some ship task forces to cover the area like they had to do in real life.
This is a big issue for me..in another game I use to play Garry Grisby's pacific war you could put ships into a pool after transport and then they could pop out at a new destination almost right away. We made a house rule that transports couldnt be put in the pool unless they were in your home country. This forced players to use transports in the way it was intended. They dropped off their cargo and returned to another port for another pick up.
this game allows for it to be done I do not understand why we do not do it.
it would eliminate immediate unhistorical buildups at remote locations around the world just because it is considered your home territory.
You can hardly surprise anyone in this game because after you start building up troops on a border like Libya and Eygpt suddenly your opponent deploys all these divisions which have been sitting in the build que. To show you how ridiculous it is your opponent could dump them to any remote island or the UK. I dont think this flexibility is good for the game. At least if a player makes plans for an attack he can get a couple of weeks in before the other player can ship in units to hold them off. It would prevent big build ques as well.

I just cant see the historical or reality part of the game when in the space of a few weeks 24 divisions pop up out of the sand because of a threat. If the player was that worried about such an attack he would have them deployed already. Why should a player just wait for an area beeing threatened before deploying troops?he should have them in place already. If he doesnt thats his bad luck he has to ship some there.


Also Malta was an important base for the Aliies to prevent German supplies getting to Africa. Now if the Allies refuse to garrison with fighters or other air units why should there be restrictions on axis deployment to Africa? We should have an 18 division deployment limit to Africa for the Germans and every fighter unit on Malta can reduce this by 1 up to a maximum of 12. At least give the Alllies a reason to place fighters there. If the Axis already have there limit of 18 because the UK didnt garrison with fighters thats bad luck for them.


edited by gzav - Please read the Double posts sticky.

 

[mike8472]

Ok ive just come home fomr work to read all this crap about me once again. Im getting real sick of this. For once i was having fun playing last night thinking im fighting for my very life to survie in this game. Know you saying im unbeatable when not on single UK soldier has die in battle against German or Italian forces, becuase yous have not attack me directly anywhere. Im under the pump, most of my navy is defending the UK, along with half the army and ariforce.

The other half which have mostly just been built (not sitting in build quese, plz check saves if you doubt this there whereo nly everl imited forces in the build que.) I deployed to India and only moved 3 infantry or armour at a time from india to the Suez (due to not wanting my tranports to be lost)and then marched them from there to the front on the border with Libya. So how the hell you think im instanlty deploying is beyond me when i started the build up in Egypt at the end of 1939. Its tacken 6 months to reach this strength and only just got enough to match your forces there at sessions end. 6 months for #$$%# sake. Thats no instant build up, i did keep around 10 divisions hidden from you in egypt and marched them in when i thought war was close. I have even transported reinforcements that i want from the UK to Gibralter and malta, plus a few comonwealth forces (abiding the leaving at least 1/3 of forces at home which no one has done before in a game that ive seen). So all this crap about me instantly deploying forces is crap, ive been transporting forces all over the place as quick as i can build them becuase i aggree with major about this issue i said it the other day and have stuck to it even though it isnt a rule. Ive been building mostly infantry since the start of the war when i actualy got manpower to use. Do the maths guys if i set 20-30 infantry to build and used most of my IC when would they be buildt, right about now in the game geees.

Plus is disbanded 65 French divisions, when i could have easily evaced 45 of them to the UK but no i disbanded them without anyone asking me to. I didnt even evac 5 divisions i let the whole french army disband. Why because i wanted to fight the Germans and italians with mainly UK forces, and a few commonwealth, so that i could have a good game. Now when i think im under the pump i hear im playing unfair, im kicking butt, your dreaming. I might lose gibralter, thats cuts the med off, then the whole of africa could fall and possibly the ME. Now i know thats not realistic but you wont hear me winge i will be planning how i can take it back in a years time when Germany is deep in the USSR.

Now Jh im all for more German forces for the Italians me and munster (espically munster has he has played italy the most) have always said Italy needs more help. Thats why we had big issues in our last game. But joel and the group agreed to this number of forces, if everyone wants more forces for italy lets do it. Im 100% for it and have been for months. So get your facts right.

After reading all this crap about me and how good the UK is doing im very close to not bother playing at all tonight or again. It has really given me the $%^#, to hear people complain about me when i have done nothing wrong and have gone out of my way to help the axis and provide a good game for myself and others. The only reason i will be showing up is because i WAS really enjoying fighting for my life as the UK and it is unfair if i quit now as joel and omni are still yet to fight, and i wouldnt do that to another player.

Now ive had my rant, cya tonight.

 

[unmerged(25040)]

reply to Mike

Good reply Mike,

Some good points made.

I suggest full germ - It tech share and full resources trade.

Plus 3 - 5 land div ( of any type = Afrika Corps) and 12 air

JH

 

[unmerged(5892)]

I really think I'm gonna need to play Italy again some time soon to get a better understanding of whats going on here.

Italy IS weak. As it should be. If we look at World War 2, then please, show me an instance where the Italian forces (other than the mountain 'Alpini' division) actually fought what we might call a successful action.

In game terms, this should be echoed - to a degree that keeps Italy weak, but also leaves them fun to play. That is the key to game balance. How much does Italy need to be enjoyable to play, without being unrealistically strong.

I think limited expeditionary forces are fine as they are for land - 3 armour, 3 inf. If 6 air is not sufficient, then go to 12 by all means. The ruling I made was off the cuff, and like all of my points - a suggestion to be debated. There are no limitations on European expeditionary forces, so germany can send 20 inf to mainland Italy if it wants.

In tech terms, my recollections are that Italy can attain a reasonable level. Perhaps lack of resources cut down Italian IC this game, or perhaps it's just been too long since I played them. If we do start up tech trades in the game, I personally would only be comfortable with it in limited situations - ie Germany can tech Italy once allied, but no gold or doctrinal techs.

What I want to see is Major have a fun, challenging game. What I don't want to see is Major have a miserable game and get crushed without being able to hatch his own plans. Equally, I don't want to see changes put in place that make Italy a replica of germany tech wise which makes for demoralizing, and unrealistic battles for the UK player.

The rule of deploying units in a home nation seems ok to me, but as Mike has said, he built up his force gradually. Likewise, with Poland, his forces did not all start in a 'Warsaw Blob' - by and large they retreated there following losses against Munster. I could see him keeping forces along the Soviet frontier even after Germany invaded.

Importantly, lets all remember what we're doing here - playing with other reasonable people to have fun. For my part, this game has been intriguing, with my normal 'wily and cunning' Soviet play (thanks jh ) heading for a different show down over Turkey. As they say - change is as good as a holiday...

(edit: wow.. finally over 500 posts!)

 

[unmerged(25040)]

Italy

I suggest the 3 + 3 exp rule and joel's tech share rule be adopted.

the importance of giving someone the chance to have fun game cannot be exagerated. o

 

[unmerged(34422)]

Yes yes, argue.

Whilst you bother yourselves with the insignifigance that is Europe, the great Empire is silently building strength, awaiting to deliver what will be a fatal blow to all that oppose it.


Anyways, I think Italy's position is fine in this game, it's historical. The Italian army sucked, sucked sucked sucked. It really did suck the piece of sucky suck. I say this after having watched a Benito Mussolini documentary on the history channel.

However, at the same time, Germany is lagging significantly behind in techs due to it's initial resource problems. I mean, come on, the USSR AND Japan are ahead of it, that emphasises the damage done by the initial resource problems.

I myself though an attack straight after France was in the best interests of Germany, and I made this clear, although Munster had other plans.

 

[Majorball]

Italian industry has been at full capacity despite resource problems. The biggest thing I see is that the Italian economy and tech structure is the only accurate one in the game. Everyone else can build much much more than they could have during the war. I mean the Uk has 24 divisions i can see in the desert, 12 fighters a couple of fleets. At this stage of the war they were struggling to field 3 divisions in the desert. No matter what tech trades are given.... Italy will also be shit.You could give them nuclear bombs but they couldnt afford to build any. The ycould build artillery tanks but how many ?

All i can see of Mikes army is 24 divisions...I would like to attack but 24 Italian divisions on the attack would be suicide. I am not having a go saying the UK is to strong going to wipe everybody out..what I am trying to hi lite is the Italians are much worse than poor. They are poor at the start of the game and they lose distance at a substantial rate on all other countries to become rather pathetic once war has started. Everyone keeps their forces in stacks of 12. 3 germans here 3 german divsions there is no good. I propose the Germans can send 12 divisions in future games(max 6 armour) and 12 fighters(anything smaller gets wiped out by a bigger stack)

BTW mike I was nearly shedding a tear for you mate.... Thats the most inspirational piece I read in ages

 

[mike8472]

Well i was just trying to get my point accross, or many of them. Im enjoying this game, not because im winning as that is clearly im not. But becuase im under seige and preasure everywhere makes the game fun. With some German help you should be able to do some damage. I nearly shed a tear myself.

P.S if you would have attacked me straight away when you DOW in Egypt you would have pushed me right back to the suez if not further. I had about 15-18 divs there then but they were low on org and not organised with good generals or grouped together. Would have had me on the back foot for sure. Anyway on with them game tonight.

 

[Majorball]

Well apart from lost 12 valuable planes to the retreat bug the Italians at least have a liitle bit of fun...althought not much if we can keep these extra bonous things for them i think it will be better in the long run for whoever plays them. It will be shortlived though with the allies massing and the russian tiger waiting. Their poor old ships get massacred easily...a fleet of 12 wipe out in less than 3 hours.....couldnt even survive minimum combat time.

 

[unmerged(5892)]

Good session tonight.

Germany annexed Spain after a reasonably long campaign, and then launched mass assults against a heavily defended Gibralter. After a few battles, the British were defeated, but escaped, embarking onto waiting ships, and returning to fight another day.

Greece was defeated, and Axis control spread over all the Balkans. But in Turkey, the fortunes again proved fickle. Again, the Turkish workers overthrew the Fasicst coup leaders, and in the 4th coup in a month, re-embraced Communism.

In a short period of time, the people of the USSR and Turkey signed a fraternal pact of freindship, and military assistance. At sessions end, Soviet military forces had moved into Turkey to assist that nations defense.

Japan meanwhile, after making peace with Sinkiang, attacked, and conquered Communist China. The campaign was long and apparently bloody, but now Japanese sway spreads even greater.

The last battles of the night in early december 1940 saw the Afrika corp and Italian forces fight a series of close battles with the UK. After one loss, they regrouped, and succeeded in pusing the British back from Sidi Barrani. Likewise, small mobile forces have captured the western Egyptian desert and Quattara depression.

All in all, its shaping up to a close game. Several notable Axis successes are tempered by the knowledge that greater challenges await in the form of the sleeping might of the USA, and USSR.

 

[unmerged(16810)]

When the Tigers broke free

It was just before dawn
One miserable morning in black 44
When the forward commander was told to 'Sit tight'
When he asked that his men be withdrawn
And the Generals gave thanks
As the other ranks
Held back the enemy tanks for a while
And the Anzio bridgehead was held for the price
Of a few hundred ordinary lives

Kind old King George
Sent Mummy a note
When he heared that Father was gone
It was I recall
In the form of a scroll
Gold leaf adorned
And I found it one day
In a draw of old photographs
Hidden away
And my eyes still grow dim
When i remember His Majesty
Signed with his own rubber stamp

It was dark all around
There was frost on the ground
When the Tigers broke free
And no one survived from the Royal Fuseiliers
Company C
They were all left behind
Most of them dead
The rest of them dying
And thats how the high command
Took my Daddy from me

Pink Floyd The Wall

 

[gzav]

While i'm discussing the Husayn-Omni case with the admins, this thread will remain closed until a decision is reached.


PS: just for major ball, i ahve had to delete/edit 3 of your posts on account of you double-posting...I hate doing thatn it's very tedious, so in the future, please use the edit button. Thank you

gzav - HoI mod

 

[gzav]

Ok, decision reached and thread reopened. Have fun guys