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The Swert

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Hi all. I've just been looking into the maps out there to see which might be best for making an Australian Scenario but i took one look and have a few questions.

Who came up with the design for Australia that is currently used in Mymap and WATK? They both look exactly the same so i'm assuming the same original design was used, would that be Hive's?

ausmymaptt2.jpg

MyMap's Australia

auswatkbq2.jpg

WATK's Australia

The reason i ask is because i find the South East corner quite unsatifactory in that there is no province for Melbourne and the border between South Australia and Victoria not well shown. Is there any map out there that depicts this better, perhaps with some province realignment similar to this:

aus1kl3.jpg

New province around Melbourne's bays. 1572 made smaller, 1570 extended southward but contracted in east. 1571 expanded westward and split into two.

I read through Hive's discussion about how Australia should be displayed and there was much debate about how much of the coast and inland should be revealed but they seemed to completely ignore the allotment of the other provinces. Is there any other interest in re-evaluating Australia in terms of these new maps?
 

The Swert

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Were you looking for something like this? I dug it out of the National Library's online catalogue. It shows the division of Victoria into counties in 1848.

oldvicmf6.jpg


IMHO:
That green segment should be a separate province as it already is.
The central red/pink segments around Melbourne should be a province.
The western red/pink segments shows the settlements around Portland, should be a separate province.
The Wimmera in the north west is virtually untouched at this stage, should be a province.
The central north and north east are already settled thanks to the ample river valleys. Should be a province.

I had a look at some maps of the border region between Victoria and South Australia. The border itself was virtually unsettled for a long time except along the coast. So i think the provinces should be arranged to create the vertical border as i showed before but with the cities on the other side of the provinces. This border, as shown on the map above, occurs to the West of the merger of the Murray and Darling rivers (the Darling is the river that merges closest to the top left corner).

On another matter, i think that WATK province #1641 should be deleted or something or though that could make the rivers look odd.
 

cool-toxic

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Hmm.. Well I don't really know much about Australia at that time. And thus I believe fully in what you say due to living in that area now. ;)

Could you maybe make your own sketch of Australia? You could draw red borders on top of your WATK map above. That would help alot I could add that to my mod with credit to you if you want. :) My mod goes to 1914 if any major changes were done.
 

Kasperus

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Well, personally I was never impressed by administrative borders to begin with so I did my best to ignore these when I designed watk (and this Australia design is entirely mine, not Hive's. Also mymap uses a different Australia nowadays afaik). I thought my 722 prov fit Melbourne well enough, especially since that city did not even exist in the game period ;)
My 3 cents...
 

The Swert

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I see your point Kasperus. Ofcourse none of this was before 1819, they had barely scaled the hills surrounding Sydney by then but considering the amount of provinces in other areas that don't quite seem historical as used in current maps like WATKAB and even much of North and South America i thought Australia could do with a revision.

I could now say that we should make an Australia that represents what might have been possible to settle had it been settled earlier by say the Dutch or Chinese or even Magellan's fleet which came awfully close to discovering the North West corner. However then, as Kasperus said, you would need to ignore all adminstrative borders which i find hard to do myself since they so define Australia these days.

Nevertheless i think even geographically the two bays on the Southern Coast (at Melbourne) are such a feature that anybody settling the area would separate that bit of land from the rest of the coast.

I'll be back later with my sort of idea for Australia.
 

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sounds pretty cool, i like the idea of getting into Australia earlier. The game is all about what if's imo.
 

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If i was designing it i would probably use administrative borders and i would make provinces like this:

aussketchat7.jpg


This would require only 2 more provinces than exists now. The shaded provinces would be omitted. Although keep in mind i'm not an expert on the northern provinces since i don't live there, i'm just going by the research i've done. Perhaps if any other Aussies are reading they could comment. Also i have several ideas about the naming of provinces also, the native tribe names sound so meaningless. I would name them more after how the explorers named the regions which is atleast identifiable today.


Cooltoxic i found this population density map from 1909 that i thought might be useful for ur AOI timeframe. The Australian Scenario i was planning would also be that sort of timeframe 1840-1920 or there abouts.
 

cool-toxic

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What do you say about me implenting the Australian map you made and then you could make your Australian Scenario Compatible with WATKABAOI ? :D
Would be nice with scenario were alot of new nations are ingame. :)
Btw, in the mod there are events to create Australia and the nation is also in the game. There's also events to get British New Guinea.
 

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Sounds good. That would be easier than me trying to make my own edits which i was attempting. The shading layer is too tricky.
I must try WATKABAOI. Are there still some free country tags? because I would like to have the Australian colonies first who become federated later.

I'll get back to you with some province names as well.
 

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Here's some province and city names i've come up with for my map changes. I tried to avoid using city names as province names and most of these names would have been used during the game period.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9156/aussketch2xz6.jpg
Use this map to match up the provinces.

Provinces (port?) – Cities (location on map):
1: Top End (yes) – Darwin (coast)
2: Greenough (no) – Geraldton (coast)
3: Swan (yes) – Perth (coast)
4: Bremer (yes) – Albany (coast)
5: Eyre (yes) – Port Lincoln (coast)
6: Lofty (yes) – Adelaide (coast)
7: Limestone (no) – Mt Gambier (inland)
8: Felix – Swan Hill (river)
9: Otway (yes) – Portland (coast)
10: Hume – Wangaratta (inland)
11: Westernport (yes) – Melbourne (coast)
12: Gippsland (no) – Sale (inland)
13: Bass (yes) – Launceston (coast)
14: Tasman (yes) - Hobart (coast)
15: Cobb – Ivanhoe (inland)
16: Riverina – Wagga (inland)
17: Monaro (no) – Cooma (inland)
18: Barwon – Bourke (river)
19: Macquarie – Bathurst (inland)
20: Botany (yes) – Sydney (coast)
21: Hunter (yes) – Newcastle (coast)
22: New England – Tamworth (inland)
23: Byron (no) – Ballina (coastal)
24: Condamine – Toowoomba (inland)
25: Moreton (yes) – Brisbane (coast)
26: Fitzroy – Emerald (inland)
27: Capricorn (no) – Rockhampton (coast)
28: Leichhardt (yes) – Townville (coast)
29: Atherton (yes) – Cairns (coast)
 

cool-toxic

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I'll add it now. But would you like to instead of writing where on the map they are located then write coast for those with ports? Cause that's what it means in the file. ;)

EDIT: Just saw you had it another place. ;) Anyway I think I'll go with the native names still. That's what I did all the other places. I use the name that was used in most of the gametime by the majority.
 
Last edited:

The Swert

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No problem. I suppose the map is to played through from 1337 to 1913 and most of that time it was uninhabited. I won't be able to work on the scenario till November so there's no hurry for the map update ;)
 

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Quick work! Just a question for future reference, how do you effectively edit the shading layer? is there an action that creates the provinces based on the ID layer's borders or something?