• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

unmerged(16810)

Colonel
May 6, 2003
863
0
Visit site
Mike is right (did I say that :confused: ) about the large Axis forces deployed outside the USSR in the flexi game. One of the things that surprised me in the game was the huge reserves the Axis were able to deploy outside the USSR against the Allies. In no way were the Axis stretched by the war in the East against the Red Army (and the best of the British). When Patton 1st Army Group (only 10 divs then) first deployed into Africa/Mid East in mid 1941 I was taken aback by the masses of troops the Axis were able and willing to deploy against Allied counter attacks in the area. But as I said at the time better the Axis fighting the Allies in the Mid East and Africa than sending more of their troops to fight on the East front.


_________________
 
Last edited:

mike8472

Field Marshal
40 Badges
Feb 9, 2003
3.766
347
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
Nolan said:
Mike is right (did I say that :confused: ) about the large Axis forces deployed outside the USSR in the flexi game. Its one of the things that surprised me in the game the huge reserves the Axis were able to deploy outside the USSR against the Allies. In no way were the Axis stretched by the war in the East against the Red Army (and the best of the British). When Patton 1st Army Group (only 10 divs then) moved into Africa/Mid East in 41 I was taken aback by the masses of troops the Axis were able and willing to deploy against Allied counter attacks in the area. But as I said at the time better the Axis fighting the Allies in the Mid East and Africa than sending more of their troops to fight on the East front.
_________________

Yea those forces nolan were axis reserve forces that had massed in Venice waiting to see what the US would do. If yous landed in france/spain/north africa/ethiopia/persia they were rdy to be deployed. Had you not invade these areas these forces would have gone to russia and hastened there defeat. We had 70 divisions as our reserve.
 

unmerged(5892)

Fourth Internationalist
Sep 27, 2001
2.122
0
Visit site
jh said:
I accept responibility for Persia. I was sure of my defence of the nile with level 4 forts and over 25 top line divisions, incl armd.

I was overun and then it was a rout due to the 65 axis ( with high mobility for over a third) divsions opposing me. The whole thing was fanciful for european players to leave the homeland so exposed - but alas the game does not model this aspect well, and we have been ove this before.

I'm only bitching about that now because I'm in trouble - had I repelled the invaders with ease, I'd be more magnamanious ;)

I think the eastern front is clearly going in favour of the Axis. So far I have lost maybe 20 divisions to air attacks, and 24 in encirclement battles that I know of. Looking at ledger means I have probably lost more in simply being worn down and suchlike.

There have been some interesting differences for me between this game as the Soviets, and my first such attempt where I stopped Omni cold, albeit with a far inferior army.

Firstly, Gunny's machinations in the east denied me the use of around 40 Red Army, and 30 minor Comintern forces in the west. After reaching an agreement after Barbarossa, those forces have moved over, but in many cases the delay caused me some harm. This is a good example of a well played diplomatic move by Gunny - hats off to you.

Secondly, the middle-eastern collapse. I had plenty of time to prepare for this, and did so with level 1 and 2 forts along my border, garrisoned with modern mountain divisions, bolstered by a reasonable infantry and arm-mot force. I outnumbered the Italians and Greeks here at first, but as events showed, the GDE imbalance meant they swept me back on day 1. Since those early victories, the matter is now more balanced, but a large influx of additional Italian and Greek divisions have put my cruddy afgans in a dangerous position. Still, for all the likelihood of a stalemate on this front, it too has kept around 50 combined Soviet/minor forces from the main front.

My other excuses... um... I mean reasons... have already been listed...

:p
 

Majorball

General
12 Badges
Sep 30, 2003
2.352
0
Visit site
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
mike8472 said:
Soviet players have gone away from the Key advantage of defeating Germany. Its numbers , massive numbers. Forget trying to keep up in tech. If there is 500 infantry 36/39/41 tech im never going to get thorugh. Or if i am im going to take a massive lossin manpower for germany. Do not try to compete with germany buy building high tech units. Go for numbers use your manpower and once you have the situation contained then upgrade units and go on the offensive.

It wouldnt matter how much infantry the russians built..Its not the ground forces doing the damage. It aircraft destroying so many divisions. Wouldnt matter if Russia builds 500 divisions if they are losing them at such a rate. The fact remains that you were able to fully Tech your army becasue you could allocate all your IC to upgrades. This was possible as there was absoultely no pressure on German for 2 years from 1941-1943. Had there been continous pressure Germany would have to have more IC in reinforcents. Also with Spain and Italy propping up the German war effort with supplies as well. Once the Allies were defeated and closed off in the Med the Axis are able to add 100+ divisions to the east front and Europe that normally would be used for defending beaches. Had the Allies built aircraft mainly fighters and some bombers(they have very limited bombers ) that would allow combat to take place on the West front and actually inflict damage on German aircraft and if anyone has seen it takes a lot of IC to replace aircraft manpower.

You know nothing about the Soviets capabilities, In the first year had if I only had .5 GDE for 50 days like Joel I could have pushed you back(your forces were all pratically screwed but I couldnt do much). Thats 7 months of .7 GDE I missed out on while we were just sitting there launching no attacks. You were able to sit in Russia as forward as you could becasue you know I couldnt launch any attacks. Matter of fact you gained no ground in 1942. It wasnt until you has teched up you actually made ground in 1943 and this was possible becasue you could allocate all IC to upgrades knowing you had no threat anywhere else. My 36 level 2 fighters and 16 interceptors were no match for jets in 1943 and faced against 80 + Axis air divisions.

You know your forces were screwed at the before winter in 1941..in Fact it took you all of 1942 to upgrade and put Manpower back into your armies when I couldnt touch you even though I had 50 plus tanks and 300 infantry.

Dont tell Joel he needs more tanks thats not the answer.
 

Majorball

General
12 Badges
Sep 30, 2003
2.352
0
Visit site
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
This talk is pointless..Mike will never admit that the Axis coming through Persia had any effect what so ever on Russians situation. The whole conversation is pointless really with the balancing situations we have introduced for Doomsday. No need for another long post telling us how brilliant you are Mike. The Axis strength is that the are all able to combine to take down each of the Allies 1 at a time and by the time of Russian entry their Southern and Northen flanks are threatened and the USA enters the war with russia in big trouble. You cant plan for those things. I am sure Joel didnt plan or know the effects of the GDE limitations and just how powerful all the Axis are including the minors powers who are able to build much more than what an AI player could. On top of this they are all Allied from 1936..Lets see how our Doomsday game goes with Italy having historical war entry rather than Allying in 1936.

I really think that if the Axis Ally with Hungary, Italy, Nationlist Spain from 1936 its pointless to have the Allies restricted by historical gearing limits. You are restricting the UK to historical gearing limits and not giving them the ability to defend themselves properly when faced with 4 Axis major powers all Allied from 1936. IF WE HAVE AN OPEN GAME IN THE FUTURE AND THE AXIS CAN ALLY PREWAR GEARING EVENTS FOR THE UK SHOULD BE FIRED TO KEEP GAME BALANCED. HAVING 4 HUMAN AXIS PLAYERS ALL ALLIED IN 1936 FACING OFF AGINST A UK PLAYER IN 1939 WHO HAS BEEN RESTRICTED BY GEARING LIMITS COMPLETELY UNBALANCES THE GAMES NO MATTER WHAT THE UK PLAYER BUILDS.

Is there anyone here without the biased oponion of Mike who thinks this does not unbalance the game. For christsake the UK is facing Spain, Hungary, Italy and Germany all Allied in 1936 and the UK does not get any extra gearing to help it build a little more to defend its key areas.

Come on people you must see that this is screwing our games hence the game we are now playing in Dooms day.

Yes mistakes were made aslo by the UK but there are circumstances beyond their control that contribute to this. I thought JH defensive strategy would hold but it didnt. No one understands the forces the Axis can mount against the UK in Key areas. AI controlled minors Allies have no where the power or strenght that Human control players do.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(11633)

Field Marshal
Nov 11, 2002
3.359
0
members.lycos.co.uk
Well, Mike ain't me! Italy, Spain etc allying early makes them more powerful. 'Nuff said.

The rules for Doomsday look reasonable. I imagine this game will be finished and we'll all switch to Doomsday, with new and different rules. If a massive balancing change is made, mod the Soviet's GDE to 0.8 earlier, say May 1942, so Joel can fight the Greeks etc on a 1 to 1 level. It's a drastic step, but if it brings a good game then so be it.

I won't offer any advice to the allies, I'm sure Major is in a far better position to offer advice than I am.

Oh, by the way, I haven't been able to access Paradox's webshop with my Visa card, so I'll probably have to order from somewhere else like the US.
 
Last edited:

mike8472

Field Marshal
40 Badges
Feb 9, 2003
3.766
347
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
Well major you have gone off on your normal blame everyone else tangent like normal. Even your allies had had enough of you blaming everyone else, so cut it out.

This is not a blame game for anyone. I think nolan is just frustrated that you pour blame on him when you shouldnt. This is about learning for all. Im sharing information with others such as Joel, Jh, BB, Gunny and so on. This is so other players can read what happened in our games as its the only one to reach 44. They can see whats worked, what hasnt, what strategies a may or may not work. No point repeating plans that already failed.

At then end of the day major, dont read my posts, No one forcing you to.

My post was a factual non proganada non boasting post on the facts of the game. This is so others player who may be playing these nations can read and see the errors or successes of others so there not repeated or can be emulated. You know so people can actualy learn and improve, or do you object to that as well. your the first person to criticse some one becuase of there lack of experience in game. So let people learn.

So please dont come here and start blaming me and carrying in like a child.

The only part of your posts which made any sense was the airpower in the west. This can have some inpact but not the impact your decribing, not against a german player who was more then prepared for it anyway. As ive said many times to faced not more the 60% of the luftwaffe at any one time with the rest in france or helping my minors. So i tried to keep it realistic from my side with large airforces and large tank and infantry forces in france for the whole game.

Another apsect which Nolan hit on was our huge forces. The Axis as a team worked very hard together to maximise our manpower use fully. So spain, Italy tried to build as many infantry as possible to which to fight the UK/US in africa and to asist in Russia. Lets look at the numbers.

Germany had over 240 Infantry it self. Italy added about 80+ Divisions and Spain about 40+. These are just the forces in Russia from the major powers. Add on top of this Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian and thats another 60+ divisions. So thats around 440 Infantry divisions alone, add on this tanks from all parties as well. So how you ever thought 300 infantry was ever going to hold is beyond me, espicaly when in 1943 all these division are fully teched.

On top of this Italy and Spain could field about 150 Divisions in Africa and Persia, which has nolan said suprised him greatly at our strength in numbers. Add another 100 infantry protecting the west with at games end 18 Panzers positioned to defend all beaches. That 18 tanks divisions that never saw action in the east. Also there would still be the same forces in Russia as there is no and perhaps more. Most of those 150 divisions in Ethiopia and Persia would hav been on beaches in the med/libya. There is no need for 100 more divisions in the med, what you need 250 divisions in the med, what a joke. If Nolan hadnt invaded ethiopia and persia there would have been over 500 axis divisions in Russia another 70 division on top of what your facing at our peak strength.

This is pure maths, you do not have the numbers. It required 120 Uk divisions in Russia to hold, which bacisly made up the difference of 300 Russian and 440 Axis divisions in the east. In hindsight it seems a figure of about 400 infantry with the same tanks and aircraft that you currently have is what is needed. Maybe you spend to much on transport planes and bombers in the early years. Maybe it better to wait till after 1943 to build these once the ground war is stable. But how this would be done i do not know as im no expert on russia. But its clearly a case of not enough forces. When the Axis ifthey wanted to can field 500 Divisions in Russia, 100 in africa and 100 in france and you have less then 300 divisions on the russian front, well you dont have to be a genius to figure out your in serious trouble.

Now Germany gets very little help from its allies in terms of tech, they do nothing i need. All italy does is infantry and they will continue to co-ordinate our techs wether allied or not in 36. Even in our current games in DD the axis will have 43 infantry in 42 as thats they way we have planned it. Of course spain and italy are strengthened by joining early with there techs. Assume they didnt join until 1939 after war, its now 4 years past that point and they would have all the major techs of infantry/armour that they have now. They would also have the same size forces as that was our plan to maximise our manpower and just roll the dice and hope we didnt run out which we didnt. Our manpower grew faster then we used it. In my opinion if i play russia in the future i would use the plan of having a much larger infantry army at the start of war with perhaps less IC with the same airforce and tanks.

That is similar to what i do as germany, i maximise the forces i can build for russia, i dont bother with IC has it takes to long to get the benifit from it. Its even more important now in DD as all your techs, slider and minsiters affect your serial builds so germany with these big builds will have even more forces come 1941. So if russia sits there and builds lots of factories, good luck to you as your gonna get spanked.

As for this current sunday game well it was a very close and hard fought operation so far. First we had Paris with lvl 9 forts, which took a few months to destroy with the whole french army there. That alone took 70 Hungairan manpower. Then we had the many failed assults on gibralter and alexandria which cost us dearly. The allies where crowing how they had beaten us and they had NEARLY. The axis only had time for last ditch all out assult on both targets before time would run out. Luckly for us we just won both of these battles. It only turned into a route once we had brocken through. Also the Allies had equal number of forces in Egypt and Africa as the axis if not more. So to say we massive out numbered them is wrong. It was a situation which favoured the allies and we had been given a few bloody noses, only a huge last effort got victory. Had we failed the med would still be open.

Another fact, Italy had only 6 Tansports in which to mve German 7 Hungairan forces to africa. But we were able to move our forces unhindered. If your going to allow your enemy to move where they please you have no right to complain after they belt you in that same area, you allowed it to happen.

Joel is in the position that basicaly he should be in 41, getting the crap kicked out of him. Russia is ment to nearly collapse in 41 and only a good effort will prevent that. Hopefully joel will be able to hold and set himself up for a good fight in 42 and beyond. But it is my ipinion and not advnice (make sure you read this major MY OPINION) that the USSR spends way to much on IC and not enough on acutaly military forces to defend themselves with. I think of it as like build IC as UK in the first year its sucide. 2 years IC as russia is more then enough any more and your hopping the germans dont crush you in the first year to give you time to recover.

On the issue or persia, there is no grounds here for complaining. The allies do not start with persia as an ally in 36. They deliberalty brought them into there alliance to get the advantage of strategic redploying from Africa to India quickly. You cannot now cry becuase it has been lost and now the axis are using it for there advantage. Its absurd to think the allies can use persia to there advantage but the axis must be forbidden from doing the same. If the allies abandon Persia then russia suffers. Jh already said it was a mistake and hopefully the allies can fix it. Until then its just tough luck you cant have your cake and eat it as well.

Another point i think alot of people seem to be worried about is TC. They wont build more units to go over there TC. My opinion is #$@* the TC im going to build every unit i need and more. At a few times in Russia my TC was like 1400/600. This however barly had any effect on my offensives, i prefer numbers. It is also alot easier to go massively over your TC is your playing on the defensive. Some thing to keep in mind for the future.



Anyway i think joel will recover, bad wether is just around the corner.
 
Last edited:

mike8472

Field Marshal
40 Badges
Feb 9, 2003
3.766
347
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
major ball said:
This talk is pointless..Mike will never admit that the Axis coming through Persia had any effect what so ever on Russians situation. The whole conversation is pointless really with the balancing situations we have introduced for Doomsday. No need for another long post telling us how brilliant you are Mike. The Axis strength is that the are all able to combine to take down each of the Allies 1 at a time and by the time of Russian entry their Southern and Northen flanks are threatened and the USA enters the war with russia in big trouble. You cant plan for those things. I am sure Joel didnt plan or know the effects of the GDE limitations and just how powerful all the Axis are including the minors powers who are able to build much more than what an AI player could. On top of this they are all Allied from 1936..Lets see how our Doomsday game goes with Italy having historical war entry rather than Allying in 1936.

I really think that if the Axis Ally with Hungary, Italy, Nationlist Spain from 1936 its pointless to have the Allies restricted by historical gearing limits. You are restricting the UK to historical gearing limits and not giving them the ability to defend themselves properly when faced with 4 Axis major powers all Allied from 1936. IF WE HAVE AN OPEN GAME IN THE FUTURE AND THE AXIS CAN ALLY PREWAR GEARING EVENTS FOR THE UK SHOULD BE FIRED TO KEEP GAME BALANCED. HAVING 4 HUMAN AXIS PLAYERS ALL ALLIED IN 1936 FACING OFF AGINST A UK PLAYER IN 1939 WHO HAS BEEN RESTRICTED BY GEARING LIMITS COMPLETELY UNBALANCES THE GAMES NO MATTER WHAT THE UK PLAYER BUILDS.

Is there anyone here without the biased oponion of Mike who thinks this does not unbalance the game. For christsake the UK is facing Spain, Hungary, Italy and Germany all Allied in 1936 and the UK does not get any extra gearing to help it build a little more to defend its key areas.

Come on people you must see that this is screwing our games hence the game we are now playing in Dooms day.

Yes mistakes were made aslo by the UK but there are circumstances beyond their control that contribute to this. I thought JH defensive strategy would hold but it didnt. No one understands the forces the Axis can mount against the UK in Key areas. AI controlled minors Allies have no where the power or strenght that Human control players do.

Major are you blind or you dont see the 3 Alied players allied all from 1936.

UK/France/Australia so its 3vs4. On top of this add the rest of the commonwealth nations that you are all sharing tech with. All would you prefer the It just be Germany vs a Human UK/France/Australia all sharing tech from 36.

In the sunday game it has been completly fair for all sides, with obth sides ally early. So get your facts straight befor you shoot your mouth off.
 

unmerged(11633)

Field Marshal
Nov 11, 2002
3.359
0
members.lycos.co.uk
mike8472 said:
I read your PM GK i will annex Joel as soon as possible.

God bless hungry and it mighty military forces.

I'd send you another if your post box wasn't full. Delete some.
 

Majorball

General
12 Badges
Sep 30, 2003
2.352
0
Visit site
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
joel said:
Major, can you make sure you fire the industry to Siberia event prior to us starting please?

Also, what time are we on for tonight?

Industry to Siberia has already been fired as an event in the game. This from the game log:

name = "20:00 May 22, 1941 : Soviet Union went with Let's move our industrial base to Siberia in Transfer of Industry to Siberia."
name = "20:00 May 22, 1941 : Soviet Union went with Let's move our industrial base to Siberia in Transfer of Industry to Siberia."

Also you can check the IC on Kiev is low compared to its starting IC.