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Majorball

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mike8472 said:
That was very rude major. Finishing at 10.30 becuase you've had enough. What about the other 10 people. You could have just left the PC on and let us continue.

If this is how our session are going to go then play on with out me.

You dont quit games or get upset becuase on side is wining. There is always going to be one side wining, your very rarely going to get a very even tight game until later on. If this is how its going to be all the time with people complaining every session becuase one side has advanatge, then lets all just forget it. form some smaller groups and go our different ways. Im sick of this crap, people will make mistakes and get beaten up, they will recover, no one plays perfect. Russia might steamroll us, all he needs to do is play for time.

I halted the session early so we could discuss the situation during the week. On top of that BB cannot deploy her Destroyers because the Major port she controls is not French. No one has quit anything so I suggest all who have concerns post here on how we fix the issue for BB.
 

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joel said:
Anyways, BB's points as I said all along (was it just me agreeing with her?) are valid.

Why else would she have played France in the first place?

exactly and I remmeber clearly sayign that on more then one ocassion when we started. I would not have played France without Vichy events you all knew that. Theres no excuse I will think what I will about it. If you wanted to war vichy you should have said and then France would have been ruled a non playable nation. By agreeing to let France be played you agreed to letting france have what it needs to be payable. One canot happen without the other. Thus the logic follows that you agreed that Vichy would be left to defect as natural and this making france playable.
 

Ric O'Shea

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First off apologies to BB, I wanted Syria and Leb to form the Arab Fed, and had hoped that most Vichy territory in africa could be returned to Free France.

As for the session Italy managed to establish (mostly) a strong position along its borders, no fighting occured in Africa and allied planes in persia were really really annoying but really well placed. Casaulties were high however Italy produced a large number of Infantry divisions during the session ensuring that the comming allied assualt can be matched in force.

It also saw the beginning of the Top Secret invasion of the Soviet Union, little progress was made in the caucasas due to poor infrastructure and an unwillingness to beat down on Uncle Joe too much, but that might change...

Hopefully solutions can be found to the North African's independance and Free France, and hope you guys all have a good week.
 

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On this note I dont know if I ven want to play France anymore as I cannot get my territory. Even if I annex all spains puppets I cant keep the territory as its non national.

I think I will quit.
 

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Well, I'm sorry BB, I did it because I wanted Italy and Spain to have a better game. I didn't know it would be such a problem for you.

Here's what I suggest so that BB gets a good game

write an event where Nat Spain inherits the equatorial African puppets. Then load as Spain in SP. Manually trigger the Vichy events for Spain (971 and 975, 979), instead of Vichy France, so that the Proper territory is ceded to Free France. Compensate Spain with reduced dissent, lowered Belligerence, to make up for loss of Puppets. Leave Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria as Spanish puppets, US can annex them when they join the war.

But it will have to depend on whether Spain is OK with that.

So add this event to the vichy new event file-

event = { #Africa to France
id = 100022
persistent = no
random = no
country = SPA

#triggered Manually

name = "EVT_996_NAME"
desc = "EVT_996_DESC"
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "EVT_996_ACTA"
command = { type = inherit which = MAL } #Mali
command = { type = inherit which = BEN } #Benin
command = { type = inherit which = CAM } #Cameroon
command = { type = dissent value = -15 } #Lost Puppets
}

}
Press f12, type 100022, 971, 975, 979
 
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The provinces will not be considered national unless they come from Vichy via events.

There are only 3 ways for french territory to return to France properly.

1# Via defection event has to be Vichy held.

2# USA conqueres from Vichy in north africa then hands back to France. Only works if USA has ahd torch and only if USA takes from Vichy.

3# French european provs conqured from Germany by USA or other allies.

The only way I see to fix this is to go back to save before axis annexed vichy and let it run its course. if italy wants the arab federation remove lebanon and syria from Vichys allaince and then dow them. This way spain has the otpion when torch firest toally vichya nd intervene in north africa to try and drive USA back. this is the only way this can be fixed propelry. ad we wouldnt lsoe mroe then 2 motnhs of play anyway and there would be no problems.
 

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Triggering the events for Nationalist Spain will be the same as if Vichy had triggered them.

And looking at the events, none of them make the colonial territories core territories of France.

Code:
############################
#Equitorial Africa defects-Sleep in 41/44-EA should be in FRA control in both
############################

event = {
	id = 975
	random = no
	persistent = no
	country = VIC

	trigger = {
		atwar = no
		exists = FRA
		event = 973 #Chad Defects
		NOT = {
			exists = EQA
			exists = CAM
			alliance = { country = GER country = ENG }
			alliance = { country = GER country = FRA }
			alliance = { country = ENG country = VIC }
			alliance = { country = SOV country = FRA }
			}
		random = 20
		}

	name = "EVT_975_NAME"
	desc = "EVT_975_DESC"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 0 month = december year = 1940 }
	offset = 14
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1948 }

	action_a = {
		name = "EVT_975_ACTA"
		command = { type = dissent value = -1 }
		command = { type = manpowerpool value = 1 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = FRA value = 1070 } #Equitorial Africa
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = FRA value = 1077 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = FRA value = 1078 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = FRA value = 1079 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = FRA value = 1086 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = FRA value = 1087 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = FRA value = 1088 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = FRA value = 1089 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 976 } #Equitorial Africa joins -FRA
		}

	}



event = {
	id = 976
	random = no
	persistent = no
	country = FRA

	#triggered by VIC

	name = "EVT_976_NAME"
	desc = "EVT_976_DESC"
	style = 0


	action_a = {
		name = "EVT_976_ACTA"
		command = { type = dissent value = -1 }
		command = { type = manpowerpool value = 1 }
		}

	}
 

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Here's the effect after triggering the event I posted and then triggering the Vichy secession events when loaded as Nat Spain, rather than VIchy France.

ScreenSave0.jpg


Exactly the same as if the events had occurred in game.

Now, the torch events won't fire, and neither will the German/French inheritance of Vichy, but that's all.
 

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That one has already fired and the provinces were national. But none of the rest of the former territories inclusing european are. it happens in the evnt like I said...
 

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Well thats no good either, god you guys screwed this all up. WHyc ant you just leave some things alone...
 

mike8472

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I Think GK is right.

Ive just gone through every event and there is nothing there tht chages provinces to cores for france. It dosnt matter if it fires in game or manulay its th same, it dosnt change. There is simply nothing in the events which turns those lands into core provinces.

The only event for core provinces is a vinchy event which is 100019 which takes away core provinces from vichy.

The events can be fired just like they would have occured in the game.

We can even fire the events for torch if and when the US gets that far so you still get the forces.

Nothing has been done here which cannot be undone or fix with simple edits.

If you think your provinces are ment to be core provinces BB can you show me the events which do that so i can look at them, becuase i cant find them.
 

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All right, Here's a set of events which puts the clock back as far as Vichy is concerned- make a backup of the vichy_new.txt file (or what ever it's called) and then trigger them manually via f12

Load as anyone and hit

event 100022 SPA
event 100023 MAD
event 100024 MAD
event 100025 SPA


Event 100022 - Makes Peace with Madagascar and cedes All Spanish Vichy territory to Madagascar

Event 100023- Madagascar inherits other ex vichy puppets
Event 100024- Madagascar releases Vichy France
Event 100025- Spain loses dissent and belligerence from puppets

Vichy rexists, no additional editing required. All other events, torch etc, can take place.

Code:
event = { #Africa to MAD
	id = 100022
	persistent = no
	random = no
	country = SPA

	#triggered Manually

	name = "EVT_996_NAME"
	desc = "EVT_996_DESC"
	style = 0

	action_a = {
		name = "EVT_996_ACTA"
		#Vichy European provs to Madagascar
		command = { type = peace which = MAD  } #Axis Peaces with Madagascar
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 319 }#Chalon-sur-Saône   
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 321 }#Châteauroux
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 322 }#Limoges   
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 324 }#Bergerac
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 327 }#Auch 
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 328 }#Pau
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 358 }#Perpignan
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 359 }#Toulouse  
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 360 }#Clermont-Ferrand
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 361 }#Saint-Etienne
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 362 }#Montpellier
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 363 }#Nîmes  
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 364 }#Marseille  
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 528 }#Lyon  
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 529 }#Besançon
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 365 }#Toulon
		#Vichy African provs to Madagascar
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 987 }#Conakry
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 989 }#Labé
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 990 }#Siguiri 
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 991 }#Kankan
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 1079 }#Fort-Archambault 
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 1078 }#Bangui
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 1070 }#Bangassou 
		#French Guyana and carribean
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 875 } 
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 898 }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 899 } 
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 1135 } #Reunion

		}
	}


event = { #Africa to Madagascar
	id = 100023
	persistent = no
	random = no
	country = MAD

	#triggered Manually

	name = "EVT_996_NAME"
	desc = "EVT_996_DESC"
	style = 0

	action_a = {
		name = "EVT_996_ACTA"
		command = { type = inherit which = MAL } #Mali
		command = { type = inherit which = BEN } #Benin
 		command = { type = inherit which = CAM } #Cameroon
		command = { type = inherit which = MOR } #Morocco
		command = { type = inherit which = TUN } #Tunis
		command = { type = inherit which = ALG } #Algeria
		}

	}

event = {
	id = 100024
	random = no
	country = MAD
	

	name = "EVT_3406_NAME"
	desc = "EVT_3406_DESC"
        picture = "india"
	style = 0

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3406A" # They cannot be held back any longer
		command = { type = independence which = VIC value = 1 }
		command = { type = dissent value = -5 } #Removes dissent from puppets
		command = { type = belligerence which = MAD value = -50 }# MAD loses Belligerence
			} #
command = { type = secedeprovince which = MAD value = 982 } #Bathurst
	}

event = { #Africa to Spain
	id = 100025
	persistent = no
	random = no
	country = SPA

	#triggered Manually

	name = "EVT_996_NAME"
	desc = "EVT_996_DESC"
	style = 0

	action_a = {
		name = "EVT_996_ACTA"
		command = { type = dissent value = -30 } #Removes dissent from puppets
		command = { type = belligerence which = SPA value = -50 }# Spain loses Belligerence
 
		}
	}
 
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This is a;;no good, whats the point in firing those vents with me all all at once right now? I haven't got a hope of holding it. They are supposed to occur with Torch so that I have USA troops to help defend. WOuld it be possible to fire those defection events that are supposed to occur in 1941 now? and do the others later. I dont want it all now cos I cant hold it. Its supposed to be gradual for a reason.

I still feel I am getting a raw deal as I wont be getting any of the Vichy forces that defected over now.

Oh well Chad seems to be national maybe I'm wrong but theres no dissent there. Doesnt matter.

P.S I am versy sorry about how I carried on last night, I just felt that you guys werent taking my complaint seriously thats all. I am ready to continue. Also can I have a lvl 1 port put in the congo for me.
 

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BB, the second set of events (forget about the first) transfers all Spanish/Puppet owned Vichy territory to Madagascar, makes peace with Madagascar and then has Madagascar release Vichy France as an independent nation. No other events get fired- it just recreates Vichy France, including Algeria, West Africa etc, as a neutral.

Arguably they screw Spain over, but otherwise, Vichy is recreated unharmed. They even get all their fleet, currently owned by Madagascar, back. But i've no problem wit the French defection events being fired early if it makes France's game better.
 
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Majorball

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Well its good to get some discussion on this issue. When you finally decide on whats to be done let me know and I will do it. BB I will add a major port in for you so you may deploy your ships. On the issue of IC I noticed france in the 41 Scenario has IC base of 25.
 

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Hehe at mighty :rofl:

I will let you guys decide what should be done. Whatever it is I am sure it will be fair and reasonable. :)
 

mike8472

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Ok some points on our games. These are serious points not propaganda so dont reply with rude answers. (major :rolleyes: )

1. On the Issue with Vinchy France. BB we never knew in 1936 that we would attack vinchy france, how could we. It never became an option until the Axis was so succesful in there operations in the Middle east.

Germany & Italy only wanted to create a large puppet in that part of the world as it is large land area to rule. To do this they needed Syria and Lebanon. This was only thought of at the end of our last session and done this session. To say its premeditated is inncorrect. We will do our best to compensate you so you have a good game.

2. There is no issue with Spain making puppets out of its empire. Its spainish land and he takes the dissent hit for creating them.

Explain to me how creating those puppets out of basicaly useless land prevents the allies from wining the war. How does it prevent the US from massing in the UK and doing continous air operations against germany for years and invading France. Simple it doest, the Allies can easily ignore the whole region if they want to, there is nothing to be gained there for them.

All the talk about the Axis being far to strong is wrong. The allies just need to apply the right strategy and it is as simple as this.

1. The UK home islands are intact. US forces along with other allies can mass there for the next 2-3 years and do conintious operations against Germany along with a full scale invasion.

2. The only way to defeat the Axis is a direct threat to Germanies homeland, eg a second front. Nothing else will defeat the Axis. If you go to fighting in Perisa, Middle east, Ethiopia, North Africa these are all side issues maybe good to get some experience nothing more.

3. A second front is the only way to really help russia or massive air operations over france and germany until this happens. You must do this otherwise Russia has a very hard time.

With this in mind it dosnt matter how far the axis are in the middle east or africa as the allies can simply by pass this and hit france directly. Why divided your forces and resources when a direct hit to germany is what you need and want. All you need to do is play defensive in all other areas and do limited counter atacks when the time is right.

4. Russia is under attack from 1 more front then normal from Persia. This also could not be predicted from early in the game, normaly allies hold well in persia.

Take into account though Axis forces are not so large at present, how can we possible hold all fronts and land when we are spread so far. This will only get worse as we advance further into the USSR.

Im talking mainly to major now as the US. Stop your panicking like you always do. You cannot see the real situation on the ground all over the war, theater I can. You only see provinces fall on the map and not what is really going on. Russia looks very strong desipite losing finland most of the russian army is safe behind the river line and will be hard to beat in a month once the GDE is edited to 0.7.

Also if you look a Joels sliders he didnt make the same mistake as you in our 7 player game (Joel is moving his slider slowly to standing army and for going some org), this will let him upgrade for a reasonable cost just like germany. Germany wont have massive control of the air like i do now in our game. Russia will be able to keep its army and airfroce upgrading if thats what joel wants.

Looking at how hard it is for the USSR to upgrade and keep up with germany after 1941. It might be a good plan to forego that extra 10% IC in central planning (2 sliders moves) which increases upgrades by 10%. Use these two sliders moves for standing army giving you a reduction in upgrades of 20%. So by 1941 a total reduction of 30% in upgrade costs has occured. By 1943 a furth 2 sliders moves to standing army reduces it by a further 20%. Usingthis plan your current upgrade costs as the USSR in the 7 player gam would be halved to 50% of what they are.

None of us foresaw how these simple slider moves would make it so hard for the USSR to keep up with germany in upgrades. Even as Germany now im completely reviewing my slider bars moves for futre games from what ive seen in the 7 player game, to perhaps give germany and even greater advantage in upgrades. Is seems its a war wining advantage.

Hopefull you as the US major will also improve on Nolans strategy and keep alot of preasure on the axis while there fighting in Russia. Im sure you have probably already invest in rocket sights and techs to make sure you get these when the time comes.

Even with all the disadvantages the allies have had in our 7 player game The allies are now pushing Spain and Italy back in ethiopia and Persia. I put your situation in Russia mainly down to the fact you are 2 generations behind in land and airforces due to not being able to upgrade due to your slider bar choices. Preasure from the west would help alot but still not decisive to prevent russian defeat.

So take all thin into account and the allies in the sunday game will do alot better then in the 7 player. Yous can apply lessons learnt from a similar situation. Only reason the axis have made similar gains is becuase the UK made the same mistake, no airpower (fighters) no Destroyers to combat subs. Its that simple.
 
Last edited: